Dear Saleem, 'infantile" logic!!! ?
Why children should always be be'littled' ?!! I feel discussing this problem out of context would result in infinite regress. we all were making refernces to certain specific contexts/ experiences.. So, I am in a fuzzy state.. Don't want to take a black and white position on it as well.. ( secret: Last time while Saleem was returnig to Saudi , we had an actual situation where our opinion differed on Cola!! ) On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 6:43 PM, salimtk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > my questions sure were not based on the anxieties of self perfection.infact, > in this case i never imagined of something like sacrifice either. > (secret: i dont like cola taste, be it alone or with rum). my anxiety was > always about the feelings the people who r at struggle might have if they > see me drinking it. onlookers 've nothing to do with this and nor do > have the kurta wearing organizers. but, the people who are suffering by > cola production. > > but, realized my infantile logic now. thanks to dileep n aryan. > > n 4/10/08, Rohit Shetti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I totally concur. > > > > On 4/10/08, Dileep Raj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > If a 'we' feeling is there, one could unashamedly be oneself ( with > > > all imperfections) > > > and support each other. sacrifices are demanded when the relationship > > > is heirarchical. > > > > > > If somebody sacrifices something out of ethical considerations.. i > > > have nothng against it. but if the same person demands the same from > > > evreybody.. I object > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 3:05 PM, Rohit Shetti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Exactly... active involvement can make some decisions easier, but > > > > then it is also directly connected to whether you feel that a struggle > > > > is > > > > 'our/my' struggle or 'their' struggle. It boils down to how each > > > > individual > > > > feels connected to the issue. > > > > > > > > R > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/10/08, Dileep Raj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I think our inner self is engendered by the constitutive > > > > > outside. > > > > > If we were actively involved in plachimada struggle, this won't > > > > > touch our innerself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 2:53 PM, Rohit Shetti < > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>Why do we experience guilt while drinking cola? Out of our > > > > > > inability to support Plachimada struggle or out of our image > > > > > > consciousness? > > > > > > > > > > > > I think inner consciousness is more important than image > > > > > > consciousness. > > > > > > > > > > > > R > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/10/08, Dileep Raj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Rohit, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What interested me in the discussion was the set of > > > > > > > 'qualifying' conditions > > > > > > > imagined for supporting the boycot. "If I were in a desert", > > > > > > > "At least in front of the samarappandal"... naomi Clein writes > > > > > > > in No Logo > > > > > > > about the possibility of allinaces fascilitated by the symbols. > > > > > > > It becomes > > > > > > > more political when students in 'developed' countries boycot > > > > > > > Nyckie ( I am > > > > > > > not sure about the spelling :)) while knowing about the > > > > > > > human rights violation in factories located in third world > > > > > > > countries. > > > > > > > When we do it in front of the samarappandal, it indeed is to > > > > > > > 'convince' some onlookers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am afraid, some UGC professors in Kerala wear khadar jubbas, > > > > > > > not because they don't have desire for other products nor because > > > > > > > they lack > > > > > > > resourses , but being afraid of the 'people' who will judge them > > > > > > > while they > > > > > > > speak on public issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If somebody mixes cola in whisky ( in private) after > > > > > > > boycotting it in public (in front of samarappandal), the same > > > > > > > moralists will > > > > > > > aprove that as politically correct. Because you are not causing > > > > > > > damage to > > > > > > > the struggle! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do we experience guilt while drinking cola? Out of our > > > > > > > inability to support Plachimada struggle or out of our image > > > > > > > consciousness? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The main demands of plachimada struggle at this point are, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cola quit Plachimada and Compensate > > > > > > > Prosecute criminal Coca Cola > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is boycotting effective as major strategy in supporting > > > > > > > these demands? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Rohit Shetti < > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dilieep, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think that product users are not un-qualified to > > > > > > > > participate in the struggles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I support the ex-workers of Hindustan Lever in Kodaikanal - > > > > > > > > but have still not been able to boycott all Unilever products > > > > > > > > in my life. I > > > > > > > > speak against Nestle's child rights abuses in cocoa farms, but > > > > > > > > I still eat > > > > > > > > Maggi Noodles. These are cases where we can atleast know the > > > > > > > > products and > > > > > > > > identify alternatives. However in the case of Dow Chemicals, I > > > > > > > > may not even > > > > > > > > know if the dye in the shirt I'm wearing has a Dow product in > > > > > > > > it. But that > > > > > > > > still does not stop me from supporting the Bhopalis. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bocycotting can be interpreted as political correctness, but > > > > > > > > its not an absolute in itself. A fellow protestor may not agree > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > boycotting and there could some valid reasons of not boycotting > > > > > > > > too. > > > > > > > > However, I would just like to look at boycot as one of the many > > > > > > > > means in > > > > > > > > which to support an issue in an atmosphere where we agree to > > > > > > > > disagree. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I share your concerns about judgement. Infact I have myself > > > > > > > > been somewhat judgemental in expressing reservations in many > > > > > > > > discourses on > > > > > > > > caste when it happens in elitist circles. Nevertheless, > > > > > > > > judgement has its > > > > > > > > place, but we ought to be smart enough not to make them a > > > > > > > > bottleneck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rohit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/10/08, Dileep Raj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The other important thing here is to recognise the > > > > > > > > > symbols - Coke is a symbol of water-rights and environmental > > > > > > > > > abuse" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do symbols overpower us at times? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suppose the product is an undergarment or condum. Will > > > > > > > > > there be a conspicous campaign to boycot > > > > > > > > > it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another concern always disturbed me in discusiions like > > > > > > > > > this is about the judgemental nature of it. > > > > > > > > > ( I am sure, once I take part in this discussion, i will > > > > > > > > > be judged) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is boycotting a symbol of the political correctness of the > > > > > > > > > boycotters? The performative nature of such acts need to be > > > > > > > > > rethought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most of the time, those who are not in the least > > > > > > > > > sympathetic to the struggle raise such allegations against > > > > > > > > > those who support > > > > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Laha Gopalan, owns land, so he is not morally qualified to > > > > > > > > > lead the land struggle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This guy uses this product, so s/he is not qualified to > > > > > > > > > support this struggle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When boycotting itself is a form of struggle, the > > > > > > > > > situation is different. Otherwise I always doubt such > > > > > > > > > "impeachments". > > > > > > > > > I stand by Aryan's sincere position here. Not that others > > > > > > > > > are hypocratic. > > > > > > > > > But there is a fear factor underneath, I am 'afraid' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 11:23 PM, salimtk < > > > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dear Aryan, > > > > > > > > > > as rohit said, will it not be an insult to the people n > > > > > > > > > > organizations around the world, who struggle against cola > > > > > > > > > > if u drink it? at > > > > > > > > > > least, isnt it basic courtesy no to drink it infront of a > > > > > > > > > > samara panthal? > > > > > > > > > > when a boycot appeal against criminal cola is raised, what > > > > > > > > > > will be the > > > > > > > > > > primary action one has to take? cola products include all > > > > > > > > > > products coke > > > > > > > > > > produces including kinley exploting local water resource > > > > > > > > > > unjustly. isnt it > > > > > > > > > > our 'ethical' commitment no to drink any cola products in > > > > > > > > > > kierala as long as > > > > > > > > > > the plachimada struggle continues? > > > > > > > > > > love > > > > > > > > > > salim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/9/08, aryakrishnan ramakrishnan < > > > > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 12:04 AM, salimtk < > > > > > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > any ethical question in drinking cola? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Salim, > > > > > > > > > > > I was very apologetic and closetted about my liking > > > > > > > > > > > for coca cola. > > > > > > > > > > > Still I like the taste of the cola. I dont have any > > > > > > > > > > > opposition to the > > > > > > > > > > > cola based on health grounds or ethical grounds. > > > > > > > > > > > Tropicana juice , > > > > > > > > > > > that natural flavoured one also come from Pepsico in > > > > > > > > > > > India. If they > > > > > > > > > > > exploit people I will support that struggle also, but > > > > > > > > > > > will I stop > > > > > > > > > > > drinking it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the opposition towards cocacola or is it against > > > > > > > > > > > their corporate > > > > > > > > > > > policies and double standard in Plachimada? I would > > > > > > > > > > > say my opposition > > > > > > > > > > > is towards the second. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aryan > > > > > > > > > > > ps. I dont understand the logic of drinking tropicana > > > > > > > > > > > and avoiding > > > > > > > > > > > cocacola for political reasons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Dileep R I thuravoor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Dileep R I thuravoor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Dileep R I thuravoor --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
