[GreenYouth] Re: Interview-Ashis nandy

[C.K. Vishwanath]

They faced a crisis -that is EMEGENCY.
They have searched new paths for indian democracy.
Now the question moves -Wither this development?


--- On Mon, 6/30/08, damodar prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: damodar prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [GreenYouth] Interview-Ashis nandy
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], greenyouth@googlegroups.com
> Date: Monday, June 30, 2008, 3:09 PM
> Since we commented on Habermas, why should we leave Ashish
> Nandy.
> 
> To begin with a personal remark, some years ago, when I
> read Ashish Nandy
> for the first time,  intimate enemy, it was a mind-opener.
> I didnt have any
> doubt that he is the *greatest* thinker India has produced.
> Subsequent to
> this, I dd read his other works on gandhi assasination,
> tagore, nationalism,
> popular cinema, jagdish bose, ramanujan, indira gandhi,
> utopia and tyranny,
> time warps. Along with these, we did also read many new
> writers. By that
> time I felt he is *greater* writer than say Nirad C
> Cahuduri ( very opposite
> positions) etc. But the life was moving, we found new
> writers and scholars
> like deepesh, parthachaterjee,  mss pandian, dk nagraj, uma
> chakraborthy,
> Chandar bhan prasad.
> 
> (I have a "villaku" in FEC for naming 
> scholars-pls. alow me here- ;-),
> 
> Then I found him as one of the *great *thinkers. ( But I
> admire his
> foresight on Narendra Modi.
> 
> There is a diminshing value with regard to Asish Nandy.
> 
> As Dileep mentoned in some other mail about frame work. I
> think he has a
> framework, which he applies everywhere- be that Sati or T20
> game.
> 
> Even in this interview, I see an extreme clairty- which is
> an excessive
> transparency. No confusions, hence it lacks
> 'probing'.
> 
> Writers and Thinkers need to leave amibigous spaces in
> their writings so
> that his contemporaries and generations coming next can
> read delve deep into
> their work.
> 
> But let me also state that, the interview and answers are
> fine. Politically
> enagaging .
> 
> But the interviewee is mimcking a thinker by name Ashish
> Nandy.
> 
> Damodar Prasad
> 
> 
> On 6/30/08, C.K. Vishwanath
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 5, Issue 26, Dated July 05,
> 2008
> > CURRENT AFFAIRS
> > interview
> >
> > 'The middle class wants development backed by
> authoritarianism'
> >
> > Amid rows of books in the Delhi office of political
> psychologist Ashis
> > Nandy is a painting that's striking in its
> sordidness: the head of a dead
> > politician enveloped in a floppy garland, surrounded
> by numerous tags
> > displaying his numerous identities. Ever the political
> dissenter, Nandy is
> > back in news after the Ahmedabad- based National
> Council for Civil Liberties
> > filed a case against him for his article, Blame the
> Middle Class, published
> > in The Times of India in January, analysing Gujarat
> Chief Minister Narendra
> > Modi's victory in the Assembly elections. The
> charge against Nandy is
> > "promoting enmity between different groups on
> grounds of religion, race,
> > place of birth and language". Some 178 academics
> and intellectuals have
> > signed a statement to protest the case against Nandy (
> > http://www.sacw.net/FreeExpAndFundos/
> defendNandy16June08.html). In an
> > interview with TUSHA MITTAL, Nandy explains how
> modernity is devastating
> > India.
> >
> > How has your understanding of India changed over the
> years?
> >
> > Like every other Bengali from Calcutta, I had a
> political edge to
> > everything I did, but little empathy for the world
> outside the cities.
> > Theoretically, I might have been committed to the
> people of India, but in
> > practice they were an abstract category. Things began
> to change dramatically
> > when I came to the Centre for the Study of Developing
> Societies. We studied
> > politics empirically, and I realised its pervasive
> presence in Indian social
> > life, how much of a pace-setting agency it really is.
> A second major change
> > came with the Emergency. Neither my political studies
> nor my understanding
> > of Indian politics had prepared me for it. It was a
> shock. Then, I began to
> > look for new ways of looking at Indian politics. My
> discovery of Gandhi
> > happened at that time. I had always disliked Gandhi:
> his allegiances had
> > looked primordial; his style a deviation from our idea
> of cosmopolitanism;
> > his politics anti-modern. But I rediscovered Gandhi. I
> became more sceptical
> > of
> > the Indian state, which was modelled on the colonial
> state that had ruled
> > us. I saw that the categories that dominated Indian
> politics had no openness
> > to the experiences of a majority of Indians. Often, as
> with terms like
> > 'secular', they could not even be translated
> into vernacular languages.
> >
> > Would you say the secular project in India has failed,
> that we have failed
> > to merge ground realities with our idea of liberal
> secularism?
> >
> > Absolutely! Secularism is a tool to achieve certain
> goals of tolerance and
> > amity. It has not been able to touch the heart of most
> Indians, who have
> > found it flawed, an abstraction used for political
> purposes only. I think we
> > would gain much more if we entered it through the
> various cultural and
> > religious traditions of India to confront the forces
> fomenting communal
> > conflict. They are actually anti-Hindu and anti-Islam.
> They will destroy
> > these faiths in the arrogant belief that they can
> defend them. We don't
> > defend faiths; faith defends us. In fact, the people
> often called religious
> > fanatics usually did not care about religion. They
> were modernists who
> > wanted a European- style nation state in India. They
> considered Gandhi
> > primitive because he brought into politics ideas such
> as fasting and
> > nonviolence. Gandhi was the counter-modernist who said
> that modernism was an
> > intrusion in Indian culture and could only devastate
> India culturally,
> > economically and
> > socially, [that] it is intrinsically hostile to
> India's environment, local
> > knowledge systems and diversity. Ethnic and religious
> conflict is a
> > pathological expression of modernity, not of
> tradition. The way
> > modernisation is conceptualised leads to genocides; an
> enormous degree of
> > violence; the demolition of civilisations.
> >
> > Can you give an example?
> >
> > I did a major study on sati, the first in contemporary
> times. I showed that
> > sati epidemics primarily occurred when a community was
> under attack. For
> > example, sati in late 18th and early 19th century was
> a direct product of
> > the colonial political economy, the kind of collapse
> of traditional norms
> > then taking place in India, the monetisation of the
> economy and human
> > relationships. Half the cases of
> > Photo: Shailendra Pandey
> >
> > Sati took place in Calcutta and its slums not in
> villages.
> >
> > In your article, 'Gujarat: Blame the Middle
> Class', you talked about how
> > development has de-civilised society, leaving only a
> shrinking space for the
> > life of the mind.
> >
> > This is a product of democratic processes. The people
> entering the middle
> > class do not have middle-class values. They only have
> middle-class incomes.
> > They have neither the traditional nor the modern
> concept of cosmopolitanism.
> > They have just risen in the social hierarchy. They
> have only middleclass
> > consumption.
> >
> > What are these middle class values?
> >
> > Some degree of tolerance and the ability to live with
> minority views which
> > are different from yours; some acceptance that you do
> not protect
> > divinities, that divinities can protect themselves.
> >
> > You have used the term 'cultural desert' for
> Gujarat.
> >
> > Gujarat has produced an intellectual culture where
> some of the finest
> > minds, thinkers, writers, artists don't feel
> comfortable at all. Perhaps it
> > is not America but Singapore that is their utopia, at
> least in the short
> > run. They want Singapore-style development. Even
> though they won't admit it,
> > they are looking forward not only to Singapore-style
> malls but also to
> > Singapore-style authoritarian prime ministers. Large
> numbers of the middle
> > class are now perfectly willing to sacrifice large
> sections of the society
> > for the sake of development. In most countries,
> spectacular development has
> > been associated with spectacular authoritarianism. Not
> only Singapore, China
> > is a very good example. The enormous diversity of
> India has always troubled
> > modern Indians. They think some degree of
> homogenisation imposed from above
> > is the perfect remedy for India's ills. They think
> they are the strict
> > school teachers who can teach the rest of India how to
> behave when
> > the government takes away land for SEZs, when it
> builds mega dams. They
> > want to shut their eyes to what development really
> means. They are its
> > beneficiaries and feel it must be protected at all
> costs.
> >
> > What is your idea of a post-secular world?
> >
> > Everybody predicted the demise of religion in the 19th
> century. Yet, at the
> > beginning of the 21st century, we find religion
> stronger than ever. It has
> > re-emerged from its isolation and marginalisation in a
> big way, taking
> > advantage of the democratic process. Unless we learn
> the language of
> > religion and enter the people's mind through that
> path, we have no way of
> > truly influencing their choices. That's why one of
> the most creative persons
> > of our time, Gandhi, said that people who say religion
> and politics have
> > nothing to do with each other understand neither
> religion nor politics.
> > Other creative persons who may or may not call
> themselves Gandhian follow
> > that method. The Dalai Lama, Nelson Mandela, Desmond
> Tutu, Martin Luther
> > King — they have all used religion very creatively.
> In India, people like
> > Baba Amte and Sunder Lal Bahuguna never attacked
> religion; Swami Agnivesh
> > has never put away his saffron robes. When you talk of
> saffronisation, it
> > offends most Hindus. Saffron is not the colour of
> extremism. It is the
> > colour of renunciation — sanyasis wear saffron.
> Extremists have hijacked it
> > because we allowed them to; they have hijacked it even
> when they don't
> > believe in it themselves. [VD] Savarkar was an
> atheist. He didn't believe in
> > Hinduism but produced the bible of Hindutva. Hindutva
> is a political
> > ideology while Hinduism is a form of faith. Ideologies
> enter when faiths
> > become weak and do not have a meaning for people.
> Hindutva is a way of using
> > Hindu sentiments politically to push towards the
> development of a Hindu
> > nation state. The concept of a nation state is not
> Hindu. It is a
> > 19th-century European concept, but Europe is moving
> away from it while we
> > continue to cling to it. As Rabindranath Tagore once
> said, India trying to
> > build a nation is like Switzerland trying to build a
> navy.
> >
> > What prompts people who were once part of the Left to
> turn to the BJP?
> >
> > Psychologically, the Leftist and the Hindutva
> ideologies are not far from
> > each other. They offer the same kind of closure, the
> feeling of having
> > reached an absolute truth by which to live. People who
> have faith don't
> > usually have strong ideologies. But many Indians also
> have blind faith in
> > ideologies because they feel if they don't have
> the support of an ideology,
> > the meaning of life will collapse.
> >
> > What about young Indians?Are they clinging to ideology
> as a means of
> > security?
> >
> > Like our politicians, the young are increasingly
> getting de-ideologised.
> > They don't understand Hindutva but they have
> picked up its slogans as
> > ideology. They cling to it with the passion of a lover
> because without that
> > clinging, they feel they will not be able to call
> themselves Hindu, because
> > otherwise they are going out and downing beef
> hamburgers. Alternatively,
> > they are moving towards a new, generic version of
> Hinduism obtained from
> > gurus. This flooding of the market with gurus has also
> come from this need.
> > You could be a Malayali working in Himachal Pradesh.
> You have no access to
> > your own village gods and goddesses, to the Malayali
> version of Hinduism
> > with which you have lived — it doesn't even make
> sense to you anymore. Then
> > you take a generic version of the faith [from the
> gurus]. Somehow it gives
> > you solace, a feeling that you are part of the Hindu
> community.
> >
> > So are we losing Hinduism's diversity?
> >
> > Hinduism is becoming a faith in the way that
> Christianity in many parts of
> > the West is a faith. That wasn't our concept of
> religion. Today, there are
> > many in India willing to fight for the cause of India
> to the last Indian.
> > Exactly as in Islam: they are many willing to fight
> for Islam until the last
> > Muslim. They despise Muslims for not participating in
> the struggle and don't
> > care how many of them die. Because they have very
> little compassion for
> > Muslims, their compassion is reserved for the vague
> idea of Islam.
> > Similarly, in India you will find a lot of people who
> have a vague idea of
> > what India is — they have a statist, mechanical
> concept of India and of
> > Hinduism, and they are willing to sacrifice a million
> people to achieve that
> > end. But the Indian state is the Indian culture and
> that extends from South
> > Vietnam all the way to the borders of Persia.
> >
> > What about Islam in India? How has it changed over the
> years?
> >
> > We are seeing an Arabisation of Islam in India. At one
> time, Indian Muslims
> > were proud that their Islam represented the best of
> the world's traditions.
> > But they are increasingly losing that confidence, as a
> direct product of
> > 19th-century European scholars who claimed that West
> Asian Islam was the
> > real Islam while other strands were influenced by
> local religions. These
> > scholars endorsed fundamentalist Islam as the real
> Islam. The hijab, for
> > example, was introduced in Indonesia by
> Western-educated women because they
> > felt the Islam of their parents was not good enough.
> The same thing is
> > happening in India. Muslims are virtually in uniform
> with skull caps and
> > kurta-pyjama.
> >
> > What are some of the biggest challenges India is to
> face?
> >
> > How do we stop the fact that our economic and social
> vision is very close
> > to writing off the bottom 10 percent of our society.
> We would be happy if
> > they were all dead. How do we find people who will use
> the language of
> > religion to re-enter the public imagination, someone
> who will re-enter as a
> > person, articulating principles in direct continuation
> with his or her
> > religion, without practising the dominant slogans of
> the pack. There are
> > many, even our finance minister, who seem to believe
> that "development" and
> > industrialisation are the way out of poverty, as that
> is the only model of
> > social change they have learnt. America consumes 30
> percent of the world's
> > resources with only six percent of its population. But
> we are not six
> > percent of the world's population. To become
> America we will have to kill
> > off everybody else in the world and consume all the
> world's resources and
> > even then we will not have the American standard of
> living. According to a
> > prediction, the Ganga will die out in 28 years.
> Something like that will
> > probably awaken the consciousness of the people.
> >
> > Why is the space for dissent shrinking?
> >
> > Their own conviction in their being right is so small.
> Because they are
> > themselves not convinced that what they are doing is
> right, they look at all
> > dissent as an attack, not only on their ideas but on
> them directly. You are
> > planting the idea in their mind, making them think
> that they could be wrong
> > — that is their fear.
> >
> > You've called history an overrated discipline.
> Why?
> >
> > Every community of India has its own history, not only
> in terms of jati
> > puranas but their own mythic history: memories handed
> down for generations.
> > There are many ways of constructing the past, history
> is only one of them.
> > But with this passion for history that came to India
> in the 19th century,
> > everything has been "historised". That, I
> think, has diminished us. Today,
> > history is a major part of the knowledge industry, but
> that no longer
> > enhances us. This search for truth about the past
> closes many pasts.
> > From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 5, Issue 26, Dated July
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > >
> >


      

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