Not you, in general, where does greatness lie? Whose knowledge? episteme? where? who defines?
On 30/06/2008, damodar prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On 6/30/08, Bobby Kunhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Since Iliahah's award came up for discussion here, I remember a "we the >> people" on the run up to Durban, where Ilaiah and Nandy were on the panel on >> the question whether caste was race - of course, rightfully Ilaiah stole the >> show with his dramatics against the *greatness* of Nandy's rhetoric. >> have a curious question.... *where is India and who are the greats?* >> *In mere curiosity* >> > > A good question indeed. If you are adressing it to me. I fail to find an > answer. Truly > > > > >> On 30/06/2008, damodar prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> Since we commented on Habermas, why should we leave Ashish Nandy. >>> >>> To begin with a personal remark, some years ago, when I read Ashish Nandy >>> for the first time, intimate enemy, it was a mind-opener. I didnt have any >>> doubt that he is the *greatest* thinker India has produced. Subsequent >>> to this, I dd read his other works on gandhi assasination, tagore, >>> nationalism, popular cinema, jagdish bose, ramanujan, indira gandhi, utopia >>> and tyranny, time warps. Along with these, we did also read many new >>> writers. By that time I felt he is *greater* writer than say Nirad C >>> Cahuduri ( very opposite positions) etc. But the life was moving, we found >>> new writers and scholars like deepesh, parthachaterjee, mss pandian, dk >>> nagraj, uma chakraborthy, Chandar bhan prasad. >>> >>> (I have a "villaku" in FEC for naming scholars-pls. alow me here- ;-), >>> >>> Then I found him as one of the *great *thinkers. ( But I admire his >>> foresight on Narendra Modi. >>> >>> There is a diminshing value with regard to Asish Nandy. >>> >>> As Dileep mentoned in some other mail about frame work. I think he has a >>> framework, which he applies everywhere- be that Sati or T20 game. >>> >>> Even in this interview, I see an extreme clairty- which is an excessive >>> transparency. No confusions, hence it lacks 'probing'. >>> >>> Writers and Thinkers need to leave amibigous spaces in their writings so >>> that his contemporaries and generations coming next can read delve deep into >>> their work. >>> >>> But let me also state that, the interview and answers are fine. >>> Politically enagaging . >>> >>> But the interviewee is mimcking a thinker by name Ashish Nandy. >>> >>> Damodar Prasad >>> >>> >>> On 6/30/08, C.K. Vishwanath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 5, Issue 26, Dated July 05, 2008 >>>> CURRENT AFFAIRS >>>> interview >>>> >>>> 'The middle class wants development backed by authoritarianism' >>>> >>>> Amid rows of books in the Delhi office of political psychologist Ashis >>>> Nandy is a painting that's striking in its sordidness: the head of a dead >>>> politician enveloped in a floppy garland, surrounded by numerous tags >>>> displaying his numerous identities. Ever the political dissenter, Nandy is >>>> back in news after the Ahmedabad- based National Council for Civil >>>> Liberties >>>> filed a case against him for his article, Blame the Middle Class, published >>>> in The Times of India in January, analysing Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra >>>> Modi's victory in the Assembly elections. The charge against Nandy is >>>> "promoting enmity between different groups on grounds of religion, race, >>>> place of birth and language". Some 178 academics and intellectuals have >>>> signed a statement to protest the case against Nandy ( >>>> http://www.sacw.net/FreeExpAndFundos/ defendNandy16June08.html). In an >>>> interview with TUSHA MITTAL, Nandy explains how modernity is devastating >>>> India. >>>> >>>> How has your understanding of India changed over the years? >>>> >>>> Like every other Bengali from Calcutta, I had a political edge to >>>> everything I did, but little empathy for the world outside the cities. >>>> Theoretically, I might have been committed to the people of India, but in >>>> practice they were an abstract category. Things began to change >>>> dramatically >>>> when I came to the Centre for the Study of Developing Societies. We studied >>>> politics empirically, and I realised its pervasive presence in Indian >>>> social >>>> life, how much of a pace-setting agency it really is. A second major change >>>> came with the Emergency. Neither my political studies nor my understanding >>>> of Indian politics had prepared me for it. It was a shock. Then, I began to >>>> look for new ways of looking at Indian politics. My discovery of Gandhi >>>> happened at that time. I had always disliked Gandhi: his allegiances had >>>> looked primordial; his style a deviation from our idea of cosmopolitanism; >>>> his politics anti-modern. But I rediscovered Gandhi. I became more >>>> sceptical >>>> of >>>> the Indian state, which was modelled on the colonial state that had >>>> ruled us. I saw that the categories that dominated Indian politics had no >>>> openness to the experiences of a majority of Indians. Often, as with terms >>>> like 'secular', they could not even be translated into vernacular >>>> languages. >>>> >>>> Would you say the secular project in India has failed, that we have >>>> failed to merge ground realities with our idea of liberal secularism? >>>> >>>> Absolutely! Secularism is a tool to achieve certain goals of tolerance >>>> and amity. It has not been able to touch the heart of most Indians, who >>>> have >>>> found it flawed, an abstraction used for political purposes only. I think >>>> we >>>> would gain much more if we entered it through the various cultural and >>>> religious traditions of India to confront the forces fomenting communal >>>> conflict. They are actually anti-Hindu and anti-Islam. They will destroy >>>> these faiths in the arrogant belief that they can defend them. We don't >>>> defend faiths; faith defends us. In fact, the people often called religious >>>> fanatics usually did not care about religion. They were modernists who >>>> wanted a European- style nation state in India. They considered Gandhi >>>> primitive because he brought into politics ideas such as fasting and >>>> nonviolence. Gandhi was the counter-modernist who said that modernism was >>>> an >>>> intrusion in Indian culture and could only devastate India culturally, >>>> economically and >>>> socially, [that] it is intrinsically hostile to India's environment, >>>> local knowledge systems and diversity. Ethnic and religious conflict is a >>>> pathological expression of modernity, not of tradition. The way >>>> modernisation is conceptualised leads to genocides; an enormous degree of >>>> violence; the demolition of civilisations. >>>> >>>> Can you give an example? >>>> >>>> I did a major study on sati, the first in contemporary times. I showed >>>> that sati epidemics primarily occurred when a community was under attack. >>>> For example, sati in late 18th and early 19th century was a direct product >>>> of the colonial political economy, the kind of collapse of traditional >>>> norms >>>> then taking place in India, the monetisation of the economy and human >>>> relationships. Half the cases of >>>> Photo: Shailendra Pandey >>>> >>>> Sati took place in Calcutta and its slums not in villages. >>>> >>>> In your article, 'Gujarat: Blame the Middle Class', you talked about how >>>> development has de-civilised society, leaving only a shrinking space for >>>> the >>>> life of the mind. >>>> >>>> This is a product of democratic processes. The people entering the >>>> middle class do not have middle-class values. They only have middle-class >>>> incomes. They have neither the traditional nor the modern concept of >>>> cosmopolitanism. They have just risen in the social hierarchy. They have >>>> only middleclass consumption. >>>> >>>> What are these middle class values? >>>> >>>> Some degree of tolerance and the ability to live with minority views >>>> which are different from yours; some acceptance that you do not protect >>>> divinities, that divinities can protect themselves. >>>> >>>> You have used the term 'cultural desert' for Gujarat. >>>> >>>> Gujarat has produced an intellectual culture where some of the finest >>>> minds, thinkers, writers, artists don't feel comfortable at all. Perhaps it >>>> is not America but Singapore that is their utopia, at least in the short >>>> run. They want Singapore-style development. Even though they won't admit >>>> it, >>>> they are looking forward not only to Singapore-style malls but also to >>>> Singapore-style authoritarian prime ministers. Large numbers of the middle >>>> class are now perfectly willing to sacrifice large sections of the society >>>> for the sake of development. In most countries, spectacular development has >>>> been associated with spectacular authoritarianism. Not only Singapore, >>>> China >>>> is a very good example. The enormous diversity of India has always troubled >>>> modern Indians. They think some degree of homogenisation imposed from above >>>> is the perfect remedy for India's ills. They think they are the strict >>>> school teachers who can teach the rest of India how to behave when >>>> the government takes away land for SEZs, when it builds mega dams. They >>>> want to shut their eyes to what development really means. They are its >>>> beneficiaries and feel it must be protected at all costs. >>>> >>>> What is your idea of a post-secular world? >>>> >>>> Everybody predicted the demise of religion in the 19th century. Yet, at >>>> the beginning of the 21st century, we find religion stronger than ever. It >>>> has re-emerged from its isolation and marginalisation in a big way, taking >>>> advantage of the democratic process. Unless we learn the language of >>>> religion and enter the people's mind through that path, we have no way of >>>> truly influencing their choices. That's why one of the most creative >>>> persons >>>> of our time, Gandhi, said that people who say religion and politics have >>>> nothing to do with each other understand neither religion nor politics. >>>> Other creative persons who may or may not call themselves Gandhian follow >>>> that method. The Dalai Lama, Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu, Martin Luther >>>> King — they have all used religion very creatively. In India, people like >>>> Baba Amte and Sunder Lal Bahuguna never attacked religion; Swami Agnivesh >>>> has never put away his saffron robes. When you talk of saffronisation, it >>>> offends most Hindus. Saffron is not the colour of extremism. It is the >>>> colour of renunciation — sanyasis wear saffron. Extremists have hijacked it >>>> because we allowed them to; they have hijacked it even when they don't >>>> believe in it themselves. [VD] Savarkar was an atheist. He didn't believe >>>> in >>>> Hinduism but produced the bible of Hindutva. Hindutva is a political >>>> ideology while Hinduism is a form of faith. Ideologies enter when faiths >>>> become weak and do not have a meaning for people. Hindutva is a way of >>>> using >>>> Hindu sentiments politically to push towards the development of a Hindu >>>> nation state. The concept of a nation state is not Hindu. It is a >>>> 19th-century European concept, but Europe is moving away from it while we >>>> continue to cling to it. As Rabindranath Tagore once said, India trying to >>>> build a nation is like Switzerland trying to build a navy. >>>> >>>> What prompts people who were once part of the Left to turn to the BJP? >>>> >>>> Psychologically, the Leftist and the Hindutva ideologies are not far >>>> from each other. They offer the same kind of closure, the feeling of having >>>> reached an absolute truth by which to live. People who have faith don't >>>> usually have strong ideologies. But many Indians also have blind faith in >>>> ideologies because they feel if they don't have the support of an ideology, >>>> the meaning of life will collapse. >>>> >>>> What about young Indians?Are they clinging to ideology as a means of >>>> security? >>>> >>>> Like our politicians, the young are increasingly getting de-ideologised. >>>> They don't understand Hindutva but they have picked up its slogans as >>>> ideology. They cling to it with the passion of a lover because without that >>>> clinging, they feel they will not be able to call themselves Hindu, because >>>> otherwise they are going out and downing beef hamburgers. Alternatively, >>>> they are moving towards a new, generic version of Hinduism obtained from >>>> gurus. This flooding of the market with gurus has also come from this need. >>>> You could be a Malayali working in Himachal Pradesh. You have no access to >>>> your own village gods and goddesses, to the Malayali version of Hinduism >>>> with which you have lived — it doesn't even make sense to you anymore. Then >>>> you take a generic version of the faith [from the gurus]. Somehow it gives >>>> you solace, a feeling that you are part of the Hindu community. >>>> >>>> So are we losing Hinduism's diversity? >>>> >>>> Hinduism is becoming a faith in the way that Christianity in many parts >>>> of the West is a faith. That wasn't our concept of religion. Today, there >>>> are many in India willing to fight for the cause of India to the last >>>> Indian. Exactly as in Islam: they are many willing to fight for Islam until >>>> the last Muslim. They despise Muslims for not participating in the struggle >>>> and don't care how many of them die. Because they have very little >>>> compassion for Muslims, their compassion is reserved for the vague idea of >>>> Islam. Similarly, in India you will find a lot of people who have a vague >>>> idea of what India is — they have a statist, mechanical concept of India >>>> and >>>> of Hinduism, and they are willing to sacrifice a million people to achieve >>>> that end. But the Indian state is the Indian culture and that extends from >>>> South Vietnam all the way to the borders of Persia. >>>> >>>> What about Islam in India? How has it changed over the years? >>>> >>>> We are seeing an Arabisation of Islam in India. At one time, Indian >>>> Muslims were proud that their Islam represented the best of the world's >>>> traditions. But they are increasingly losing that confidence, as a direct >>>> product of 19th-century European scholars who claimed that West Asian Islam >>>> was the real Islam while other strands were influenced by local religions. >>>> These scholars endorsed fundamentalist Islam as the real Islam. The hijab, >>>> for example, was introduced in Indonesia by Western-educated women because >>>> they felt the Islam of their parents was not good enough. The same thing is >>>> happening in India. Muslims are virtually in uniform with skull caps and >>>> kurta-pyjama. >>>> >>>> What are some of the biggest challenges India is to face? >>>> >>>> How do we stop the fact that our economic and social vision is very >>>> close to writing off the bottom 10 percent of our society. We would be >>>> happy >>>> if they were all dead. How do we find people who will use the language of >>>> religion to re-enter the public imagination, someone who will re-enter as a >>>> person, articulating principles in direct continuation with his or her >>>> religion, without practising the dominant slogans of the pack. There are >>>> many, even our finance minister, who seem to believe that "development" and >>>> industrialisation are the way out of poverty, as that is the only model of >>>> social change they have learnt. America consumes 30 percent of the world's >>>> resources with only six percent of its population. But we are not six >>>> percent of the world's population. To become America we will have to kill >>>> off everybody else in the world and consume all the world's resources and >>>> even then we will not have the American standard of living. According to a >>>> prediction, the Ganga will die out in 28 years. Something like that will >>>> probably awaken the consciousness of the people. >>>> >>>> Why is the space for dissent shrinking? >>>> >>>> Their own conviction in their being right is so small. Because they are >>>> themselves not convinced that what they are doing is right, they look at >>>> all >>>> dissent as an attack, not only on their ideas but on them directly. You are >>>> planting the idea in their mind, making them think that they could be wrong >>>> — that is their fear. >>>> >>>> You've called history an overrated discipline. Why? >>>> >>>> Every community of India has its own history, not only in terms of jati >>>> puranas but their own mythic history: memories handed down for generations. >>>> There are many ways of constructing the past, history is only one of them. >>>> But with this passion for history that came to India in the 19th century, >>>> everything has been "historised". That, I think, has diminished us. Today, >>>> history is a major part of the knowledge industry, but that no longer >>>> enhances us. This search for truth about the past closes many pasts. >>>> From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 5, Issue 26, Dated July >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Bobby Kunhu > > > -- Bobby Kunhu --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
