Of course, a.nandy's neo-gandhian politics didn't have much relevance in durban.Even though,he says about the importance of mayavati,resilence of indian rural life is not accepetable to dalits.
--- On Tue, 7/1/08, damodar prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: damodar prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [GreenYouth] Re: Interview-Ashis nandy > To: "Bobby Kunhu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [email protected] > Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 5:47 AM > I dont how to define "greatness". As I read once > agin read the mail I wrote > afer reading your response, I am aware certain subtle but > definite issues > about the question you raise. > > If there are mopre responses, I believe we need to wait for > that. Reponse > may perhaps precisley raise issues concerned with Indian > stream of > postcolonial thought. > > On 6/30/08, Bobby Kunhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > Not you, in general, where does greatness lie? Whose > knowledge? episteme? > > where? who defines? > > > > On 30/06/2008, damodar prasad > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> On 6/30/08, Bobby Kunhu > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> > >>> Since Iliahah's award came up for > discussion here, I remember a "we the > >>> people" on the run up to Durban, where > Ilaiah and Nandy were on the panel on > >>> the question whether caste was race - of > course, rightfully Ilaiah stole the > >>> show with his dramatics against the > *greatness* of Nandy's rhetoric. > >>> have a curious question.... *where is India > and who are the greats?* > >>> *In mere curiosity* > >>> > >> > >> A good question indeed. If you are adressing it to > me. I fail to find an > >> answer. Truly > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On 30/06/2008, damodar prasad > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Since we commented on Habermas, why should > we leave Ashish Nandy. > >>>> > >>>> To begin with a personal remark, some > years ago, when I read Ashish > >>>> Nandy for the first time, intimate enemy, > it was a mind-opener. I didnt > >>>> have any doubt that he is the *greatest* > thinker India has produced. > >>>> Subsequent to this, I dd read his other > works on gandhi assasination, > >>>> tagore, nationalism, popular cinema, > jagdish bose, ramanujan, indira gandhi, > >>>> utopia and tyranny, time warps. Along with > these, we did also read many new > >>>> writers. By that time I felt he is > *greater* writer than say Nirad C > >>>> Cahuduri ( very opposite positions) etc. > But the life was moving, we found > >>>> new writers and scholars like deepesh, > parthachaterjee, mss pandian, dk > >>>> nagraj, uma chakraborthy, Chandar bhan > prasad. > >>>> > >>>> (I have a "villaku" in FEC for > naming scholars-pls. alow me here- ;-), > >>>> > >>>> Then I found him as one of the *great > *thinkers. ( But I admire his > >>>> foresight on Narendra Modi. > >>>> > >>>> There is a diminshing value with regard to > Asish Nandy. > >>>> > >>>> As Dileep mentoned in some other mail > about frame work. I think he has a > >>>> framework, which he applies everywhere- be > that Sati or T20 game. > >>>> > >>>> Even in this interview, I see an extreme > clairty- which is an excessive > >>>> transparency. No confusions, hence it > lacks 'probing'. > >>>> > >>>> Writers and Thinkers need to leave > amibigous spaces in their writings so > >>>> that his contemporaries and generations > coming next can read delve deep into > >>>> their work. > >>>> > >>>> But let me also state that, the interview > and answers are fine. > >>>> Politically enagaging . > >>>> > >>>> But the interviewee is mimcking a thinker > by name Ashish Nandy. > >>>> > >>>> Damodar Prasad > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 6/30/08, C.K. Vishwanath > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 5, Issue > 26, Dated July 05, 2008 > >>>>> CURRENT AFFAIRS > >>>>> interview > >>>>> > >>>>> 'The middle class wants > development backed by authoritarianism' > >>>>> > >>>>> Amid rows of books in the Delhi office > of political psychologist Ashis > >>>>> Nandy is a painting that's > striking in its sordidness: the head of a dead > >>>>> politician enveloped in a floppy > garland, surrounded by numerous tags > >>>>> displaying his numerous identities. > Ever the political dissenter, Nandy is > >>>>> back in news after the Ahmedabad- > based National Council for Civil Liberties > >>>>> filed a case against him for his > article, Blame the Middle Class, published > >>>>> in The Times of India in January, > analysing Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra > >>>>> Modi's victory in the Assembly > elections. The charge against Nandy is > >>>>> "promoting enmity between > different groups on grounds of religion, race, > >>>>> place of birth and language". > Some 178 academics and intellectuals have > >>>>> signed a statement to protest the case > against Nandy ( > >>>>> http://www.sacw.net/FreeExpAndFundos/ > defendNandy16June08.html). In an > >>>>> interview with TUSHA MITTAL, Nandy > explains how modernity is devastating > >>>>> India. > >>>>> > >>>>> How has your understanding of India > changed over the years? > >>>>> > >>>>> Like every other Bengali from > Calcutta, I had a political edge to > >>>>> everything I did, but little empathy > for the world outside the cities. > >>>>> Theoretically, I might have been > committed to the people of India, but in > >>>>> practice they were an abstract > category. Things began to change dramatically > >>>>> when I came to the Centre for the > Study of Developing Societies. We studied > >>>>> politics empirically, and I realised > its pervasive presence in Indian social > >>>>> life, how much of a pace-setting > agency it really is. A second major change > >>>>> came with the Emergency. Neither my > political studies nor my understanding > >>>>> of Indian politics had prepared me for > it. It was a shock. Then, I began to > >>>>> look for new ways of looking at Indian > politics. My discovery of Gandhi > >>>>> happened at that time. I had always > disliked Gandhi: his allegiances had > >>>>> looked primordial; his style a > deviation from our idea of cosmopolitanism; > >>>>> his politics anti-modern. But I > rediscovered Gandhi. I became more sceptical > >>>>> of > >>>>> the Indian state, which was modelled > on the colonial state that had > >>>>> ruled us. I saw that the categories > that dominated Indian politics had no > >>>>> openness to the experiences of a > majority of Indians. Often, as with terms > >>>>> like 'secular', they could not > even be translated into vernacular languages. > >>>>> > >>>>> Would you say the secular project in > India has failed, that we have > >>>>> failed to merge ground realities with > our idea of liberal secularism? > >>>>> > >>>>> Absolutely! Secularism is a tool to > achieve certain goals of tolerance > >>>>> and amity. It has not been able to > touch the heart of most Indians, who have > >>>>> found it flawed, an abstraction used > for political purposes only. I think we > >>>>> would gain much more if we entered it > through the various cultural and > >>>>> religious traditions of India to > confront the forces fomenting communal > >>>>> conflict. They are actually anti-Hindu > and anti-Islam. They will destroy > >>>>> these faiths in the arrogant belief > that they can defend them. We don't > >>>>> defend faiths; faith defends us. In > fact, the people often called religious > >>>>> fanatics usually did not care about > religion. They were modernists who > >>>>> wanted a European- style nation state > in India. They considered Gandhi > >>>>> primitive because he brought into > politics ideas such as fasting and > >>>>> nonviolence. Gandhi was the > counter-modernist who said that modernism was an > >>>>> intrusion in Indian culture and could > only devastate India culturally, > >>>>> economically and > >>>>> socially, [that] it is intrinsically > hostile to India's environment, > >>>>> local knowledge systems and diversity. > Ethnic and religious conflict is a > >>>>> pathological expression of modernity, > not of tradition. The way > >>>>> modernisation is conceptualised leads > to genocides; an enormous degree of > >>>>> violence; the demolition of > civilisations. > >>>>> > >>>>> Can you give an example? > >>>>> > >>>>> I did a major study on sati, the first > in contemporary times. I showed > >>>>> that sati epidemics primarily occurred > when a community was under attack. > >>>>> For example, sati in late 18th and > early 19th century was a direct product > >>>>> of the colonial political economy, the > kind of collapse of traditional norms > >>>>> then taking place in India, the > monetisation of the economy and human > >>>>> relationships. Half the cases of > >>>>> Photo: Shailendra Pandey > >>>>> > >>>>> Sati took place in Calcutta and its > slums not in villages. > >>>>> > >>>>> In your article, 'Gujarat: Blame > the Middle Class', you talked about > >>>>> how development has de-civilised > society, leaving only a shrinking space for > >>>>> the life of the mind. > >>>>> > >>>>> This is a product of democratic > processes. The people entering the > >>>>> middle class do not have middle-class > values. They only have middle-class > >>>>> incomes. They have neither the > traditional nor the modern concept of > >>>>> cosmopolitanism. They have just risen > in the social hierarchy. They have > >>>>> only middleclass consumption. > >>>>> > >>>>> What are these middle class values? > >>>>> > >>>>> Some degree of tolerance and the > ability to live with minority views > >>>>> which are different from yours; some > acceptance that you do not protect > >>>>> divinities, that divinities can > protect themselves. > >>>>> > >>>>> You have used the term 'cultural > desert' for Gujarat. > >>>>> > >>>>> Gujarat has produced an intellectual > culture where some of the finest > >>>>> minds, thinkers, writers, artists > don't feel comfortable at all. Perhaps it > >>>>> is not America but Singapore that is > their utopia, at least in the short > >>>>> run. They want Singapore-style > development. Even though they won't admit it, > >>>>> they are looking forward not only to > Singapore-style malls but also to > >>>>> Singapore-style authoritarian prime > ministers. Large numbers of the middle > >>>>> class are now perfectly willing to > sacrifice large sections of the society > >>>>> for the sake of development. In most > countries, spectacular development has > >>>>> been associated with spectacular > authoritarianism. Not only Singapore, China > >>>>> is a very good example. The enormous > diversity of India has always troubled > >>>>> modern Indians. They think some degree > of homogenisation imposed from above > >>>>> is the perfect remedy for India's > ills. They think they are the strict > >>>>> school teachers who can teach the rest > of India how to behave when > >>>>> the government takes away land for > SEZs, when it builds mega dams. They > >>>>> want to shut their eyes to what > development really means. They are its > >>>>> beneficiaries and feel it must be > protected at all costs. > >>>>> > >>>>> What is your idea of a post-secular > world? > >>>>> > >>>>> Everybody predicted the demise of > religion in the 19th century. Yet, at > >>>>> the beginning of the 21st century, we > find religion stronger than ever. It > >>>>> has re-emerged from its isolation and > marginalisation in a big way, taking > >>>>> advantage of the democratic process. > Unless we learn the language of > >>>>> religion and enter the people's > mind through that path, we have no way of > >>>>> truly influencing their choices. > That's why one of the most creative persons > >>>>> of our time, Gandhi, said that people > who say religion and politics have > >>>>> nothing to do with each other > understand neither religion nor politics. > >>>>> Other creative persons who may or may > not call themselves Gandhian follow > >>>>> that method. The Dalai Lama, Nelson > Mandela, Desmond Tutu, Martin Luther > >>>>> King — they have all used religion > very creatively. In India, people like > >>>>> Baba Amte and Sunder Lal Bahuguna > never attacked religion; Swami Agnivesh > >>>>> has never put away his saffron robes. > When you talk of saffronisation, it > >>>>> offends most Hindus. Saffron is not > the colour of extremism. It is the > >>>>> colour of renunciation — sanyasis > wear saffron. Extremists have hijacked it > >>>>> because we allowed them to; they have > hijacked it even when they don't > >>>>> believe in it themselves. [VD] > Savarkar was an atheist. He didn't believe in > >>>>> Hinduism but produced the bible of > Hindutva. Hindutva is a political > >>>>> ideology while Hinduism is a form of > faith. Ideologies enter when faiths > >>>>> become weak and do not have a meaning > for people. Hindutva is a way of using > >>>>> Hindu sentiments politically to push > towards the development of a Hindu > >>>>> nation state. The concept of a nation > state is not Hindu. It is a > >>>>> 19th-century European concept, but > Europe is moving away from it while we > >>>>> continue to cling to it. As > Rabindranath Tagore once said, India trying to > >>>>> build a nation is like Switzerland > trying to build a navy. > >>>>> > >>>>> What prompts people who were once part > of the Left to turn to the BJP? > >>>>> > >>>>> Psychologically, the Leftist and the > Hindutva ideologies are not far > >>>>> from each other. They offer the same > kind of closure, the feeling of having > >>>>> reached an absolute truth by which to > live. People who have faith don't > >>>>> usually have strong ideologies. But > many Indians also have blind faith in > >>>>> ideologies because they feel if they > don't have the support of an ideology, > >>>>> the meaning of life will collapse. > >>>>> > >>>>> What about young Indians?Are they > clinging to ideology as a means of > >>>>> security? > >>>>> > >>>>> Like our politicians, the young are > increasingly getting > >>>>> de-ideologised. They don't > understand Hindutva but they have picked up its > >>>>> slogans as ideology. They cling to it > with the passion of a lover because > >>>>> without that clinging, they feel they > will not be able to call themselves > >>>>> Hindu, because otherwise they are > going out and downing beef hamburgers. > >>>>> Alternatively, they are moving towards > a new, generic version of Hinduism > >>>>> obtained from gurus. This flooding of > the market with gurus has also come > >>>>> from this need. You could be a > Malayali working in Himachal Pradesh. You > >>>>> have no access to your own village > gods and goddesses, to the Malayali > >>>>> version of Hinduism with which you > have lived — it doesn't even make sense > >>>>> to you anymore. Then you take a > generic version of the faith [from the > >>>>> gurus]. Somehow it gives you solace, a > feeling that you are part of the > >>>>> Hindu community. > >>>>> > >>>>> So are we losing Hinduism's > diversity? > >>>>> > >>>>> Hinduism is becoming a faith in the > way that Christianity in many parts > >>>>> of the West is a faith. That > wasn't our concept of religion. Today, there > >>>>> are many in India willing to fight for > the cause of India to the last > >>>>> Indian. Exactly as in Islam: they are > many willing to fight for Islam until > >>>>> the last Muslim. They despise Muslims > for not participating in the struggle > >>>>> and don't care how many of them > die. Because they have very little > >>>>> compassion for Muslims, their > compassion is reserved for the vague idea of > >>>>> Islam. Similarly, in India you will > find a lot of people who have a vague > >>>>> idea of what India is — they have a > statist, mechanical concept of India and > >>>>> of Hinduism, and they are willing to > sacrifice a million people to achieve > >>>>> that end. But the Indian state is the > Indian culture and that extends from > >>>>> South Vietnam all the way to the > borders of Persia. > >>>>> > >>>>> What about Islam in India? How has it > changed over the years? > >>>>> > >>>>> We are seeing an Arabisation of Islam > in India. At one time, Indian > >>>>> Muslims were proud that their Islam > represented the best of the world's > >>>>> traditions. But they are increasingly > losing that confidence, as a direct > >>>>> product of 19th-century European > scholars who claimed that West Asian Islam > >>>>> was the real Islam while other strands > were influenced by local religions. > >>>>> These scholars endorsed fundamentalist > Islam as the real Islam. The hijab, > >>>>> for example, was introduced in > Indonesia by Western-educated women because > >>>>> they felt the Islam of their parents > was not good enough. The same thing is > >>>>> happening in India. Muslims are > virtually in uniform with skull caps and > >>>>> kurta-pyjama. > >>>>> > >>>>> What are some of the biggest > challenges India is to face? > >>>>> > >>>>> How do we stop the fact that our > economic and social vision is very > >>>>> close to writing off the bottom 10 > percent of our society. We would be happy > >>>>> if they were all dead. How do we find > people who will use the language of > >>>>> religion to re-enter the public > imagination, someone who will re-enter as a > >>>>> person, articulating principles in > direct continuation with his or her > >>>>> religion, without practising the > dominant slogans of the pack. There are > >>>>> many, even our finance minister, who > seem to believe that "development" and > >>>>> industrialisation are the way out of > poverty, as that is the only model of > >>>>> social change they have learnt. > America consumes 30 percent of the world's > >>>>> resources with only six percent of its > population. But we are not six > >>>>> percent of the world's population. > To become America we will have to kill > >>>>> off everybody else in the world and > consume all the world's resources and > >>>>> even then we will not have the > American standard of living. According to a > >>>>> prediction, the Ganga will die out in > 28 years. Something like that > >>>>> will probably awaken the consciousness > of the people. > >>>>> > >>>>> Why is the space for dissent > shrinking? > >>>>> > >>>>> Their own conviction in their being > right is so small. Because they are > >>>>> themselves not convinced that what > they are doing is right, they look at all > >>>>> dissent as an attack, not only on > their ideas but on them directly. You are > >>>>> planting the idea in their mind, > making them think that they could be wrong > >>>>> — that is their fear. > >>>>> > >>>>> You've called history an overrated > discipline. Why? > >>>>> > >>>>> Every community of India has its own > history, not only in terms of jati > >>>>> puranas but their own mythic history: > memories handed down for generations. > >>>>> There are many ways of constructing > the past, history is only one of them. > >>>>> But with this passion for history that > came to India in the 19th century, > >>>>> everything has been > "historised". That, I think, has diminished us. > Today, > >>>>> history is a major part of the > knowledge industry, but that no longer > >>>>> enhances us. This search for truth > about the past closes many pasts. > >>>>> From Tehelka Magazine, Vol 5, Issue > 26, Dated July > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Bobby Kunhu > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Bobby Kunhu > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
