I was just wondering whether anybody has comments on the $s coming to aid the Tibetan cause. Is that to support the cause or to oppose China ?
oh, yea, I was just reading http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/21/nic-report-america-china 2008/11/17 sukumaran kp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > I strongly support Dalai lama and the tibetan people for their freedom > struggle. > > --- On Mon, 17/11/08, ranju radha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > From: ranju radha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: [GreenYouth] Re: An Open Letter to the Dalai Lama > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Monday, 17 November, 2008, 2:37 PM > > history is always read for the present. > > > > and dont essentialise and exclude "buddhism" from > > the wordly affairs. Dalai > > lama belongs to one sect of buddhism only. The politics of > > Buddhism does > > take care of capitalism/communism/socialism. It s not just > > a 'religion'. If > > u take out the political essencse from it, buddhism wud > > die. so dont > > romantise it. > > > > and going back is a reactionary ideal. It should be discard > > for the sake of > > democratic ideals. so, tibetians will decide their fate, > > not China, me or > > any one else (though in many cases the outside world > > decides the fate). > > > > it is nations (in the Western sense) demand nationalism, > > not people. > > and in our context(India), it s the nationalism that > > imagines a nation. > > > > i m least bothered abt an international state. even if that > > happens there > > will emerge nationalisms.. (i m ill equipped to theorise it > > now) > > but one thing is, the meta narrative f nation and > > nationalism is a hegemonic > > universalisign project and many a communities trapped > > within that > > imagination always revolt. > > these aspirations are attempts to create new universalities > > and redefine > > power relations (obviously creating its own in the > > process).. such dynamism > > gives life to the process of nation-making. sociatial > > relations get redefned > > in the process, thereby evloving better outcomes, > > hopefully. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 10:02 AM, sreenivas v.p > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > History has to be read in the light of the present > > .Otherwise it has no > > > meaning . > > > > > > If you are reading history as a collection of > > independent facts , it will > > > not be any useful to us . It does not make any > > meaning that Tibet was part > > > of china hundreds of years back so it has to be > > returned to them now . > > > Buddists are a group of peace loving people who lead a > > simple life . Let us > > > not feed communism or capitalism into them . in this > > light , we need to > > > regard tibet as an independent territory . same is the > > case with kashmir as > > > well . > > > > > > being patriotic is a stupid idea but here the fight is > > between nations not > > > between people . > > > china means beijing and not chinese people . > > > > > > are u talking about an international state ?, till > > such a state comes into > > > place , there will be nationalism and we will have to > > support that to a > > > certain extent . > > > > > > regards > > > Sreenivas > > > bangalore > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On *Mon, 17/11/08, ranju radha > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote: > > > > > > From: ranju radha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Subject: [GreenYouth] Re: An Open Letter to the Dalai > > Lama > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Monday, 17 November, 2008, 8:54 AM > > > > > > civilians all over the world belive or are made to > > belive that we live > > > here peacefully because there is military at the > > boarder. chinese people may > > > be feeling the same way. > > > > > > but given the context of hindu colonisation taking a > > violent turn and > > > moving into the genocidal terror mode, one can't > > always belive such myths. > > > > > > Are we not living peacefully bz the newspaper-walla > > puts the newspaper at > > > our door steps on time and therby, initiating us to > > the world around us, > > > make us belive in peace and lead us to demand a > > peaceful world ? Yes we are. > > > It is not only the jawans in kargil but also the > > newspaper boys in the > > > streets, t make us 'belive' that we live in > > peace. > > > but are we not paying a price for that? Living > > peacefully in a country of > > > violence demands alot more slavish/blind belief. > > Belief that make us believe > > > that we cant live without belief. We end up victims of > > that belief. but > > > sometimes, or most of the time we tend to believe in > > it. nationalisms are > > > created out of such beliefs. patriotism is the symptm. > > > boundaries are fuzzy; history can delete it with just > > a stroke > > > We as a trapped rat in the boundaries of nation > > clamour for more strong > > > boundaries > > > but boundary again is a myth created and re-created in > > our minds. the > > > beliefs make us create such strong boundaries in our > > mind. can we break it? > > > let us try once. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 1:04 AM, bobinson > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >> >Your Holiness, even during the period when > > China was yet to become an > > >> economic powerhouse, you could not persuade > > Buddhist majority countries like > > >> Thailand or Sri Lanka to boycott China. > > >> > > >> > > >> During my recent visit to north east states I > > happen to talk to lot of > > >> Indian Buddhists. Not a huge number, hence they > > may not represent the > > >> Buddhist community but still I was surprised to > > find that none of them > > >> supported Dalai lama. > > >> > > >> Another experience is witnessing the chineese > > demonstration in ottawa, > > >> Canada immediately after Dalai Lama's visit to > > Ottawa. ( > > >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/freemind/2412774172/) > > I was told by the > > >> chineese crowd that during a recent tibetan > > demonstration chineese embassy > > >> was attacked and flags were burned. I was told the > > similar facts about the > > >> visit and violence caused by the same by a > > Canadian photographer also. > > >> > > >> > > >> I am not making conclusions. Simply mentioning few > > facts. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 10:48 PM, sreenivas v.p > > < > > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> > > >>> > > >>> i support Dalai lama and the tibetan people > > for their freedom > > >>> struggle. expanding territory is one of the > > agenda of chinese communist > > >>> party and they are following it religiously > > which resulted attacking > > >>> nieghboring countries including russia and > > india. > > >>> > > >>> some communists were laughing saying that > > indian soldiers ran away > > >>> fearing chinese bomb tack during 1962 war . > > these people should not forget > > >>> that we live here peacefully for the fact that > > our soldiers are struggling > > >>> for life in the border. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> sreenivas > > >>> bangalore > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> --- On *Sun, 16/11/08, Bobby Kunhu > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote: > > >>> > > >>> From: Bobby Kunhu > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >>> Subject: [GreenYouth] An Open Letter to the > > Dalai Lama > > >>> To: > > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" < > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > > "Greenyouth" < > > >>> [email protected]>, > > "canopeners" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >>> Date: Sunday, 16 November, 2008, 7:25 AM > > >>> > > >>> > > http://winnowed.blogspot.com/2008/11/open-letter-to-dalai-lama.html > > Saturday, > > >>> 15 November 2008 An Open Letter to the Dalai > > Lama<http://winnowed.blogspot.com/2008/11/open-letter-to-dalai-lama.html > > > > >>> Your Holiness, > > >>> > > >>> I hope this letter finds you in good health. > > You must be very busy right > > >>> now, Your Holiness, preparing to attend the > > six day meet you have convened > > >>> for members of the Tibetan Government-in-Exile > > in Dharamshala from 17 > > >>> November 2008 to discuss the future course of > > action for Tibet. I assume you > > >>> are not in the best of spirits, Your Holiness. > > You underwent a surgery for > > >>> removal of a gall bladder stone last month. > > You have publicly > > stated<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7693052.stm>that > > you have lost hope of reaching a settlement with China > > through > > >>> dialogue. Ever since March 1959 when you left > > Tibet and went to India, you > > >>> have been trying to obtain a better deal for > > Tibet and its people. You have > > >>> not only always stuck to the path of > > non-violence, but you have also > > >>> insisted that your followers do the same. All > > of this is admirable until one > > >>> realises that, as you recently admitted, you > > have not managed to wring a > > >>> single compromise out of China. > > >>> > > >>> Your Holiness, are you worried that history > > will judge you harshly for > > >>> not having achieved anything much for the > > people of Tibet, despite > > >>> struggling for almost 50 years? I don't > > have an answer to that, Your > > >>> Holiness. Before we respond to that question, > > why don't we take a quick look > > >>> at Tibet's history? > > >>> > > >>> The Tibetan language belongs to the > > Tibeto-Burman branch of the > > >>> Sino-Tibetan language family. Tibetan is as > > much distinct from Mandarin as > > >>> Burmese is. Tibet has always been an > > independent country. In the early 9th > > >>> century, Buddhism reached Tibet after a > > Tibetan king invited Buddhist > > >>> preachers and artisans from India. There have > > been occasions when Tibetan > > >>> kings have defeated Chinese rulers in battle. > > From the 13th century onwards, > > >>> Tibet was under the control of the Mongols who > > also controlled vast > > >>> stretches of China. It was when the Mongols > > controlled Tibet that Buddhism > > >>> spread to Mongolia. In the seventeenth > > century, the fifth Dalai Lama became > > >>> the spiritual and temporal head of the whole > > of Tibet. Tibet has had wars > > >>> with the kingdoms of Ladakh, Bhutan and Nepal, > > losing many battles and > > >>> winning a few. > > >>> > > >>> Since the early eighteen century, the Manchu > > rulers of China have made > > >>> claims on Tibet. However, China went into a > > period of decline after that and > > >>> Tibet managed to assert its independence. In > > the early 20th century, the > > >>> British led a few expeditions into Tibet in > > order to prevent any Russian > > >>> influence in the region. The British forced > > the Tibetans to sign a trade > > >>> treaty which opened Tibet's borders to > > British India. In 1907, Britain also > > >>> entered into a treaty with Russia which > > recognised Chinese suzerainty over > > >>> Tibet. > > >>> > > >>> After China was defeated by Japan in a series > > of battles in the early > > >>> twentieth century, Chinese control over Tibet > > waned. Britain, Tibet and > > >>> China held negotiations in Simla in 1913 and > > 1914 to resolve the boundaries > > >>> between India, China and Tibet. The > > negotiations broke down and Henry > > >>> McMahon, the then British Indian foreign > > secretary and the chief British > > >>> negotiator, unilaterally demarcated the > > Indo-Tibetan border. Approximately > > >>> 9,000 square kilometres of traditional Tibetan > > territory in southern Tibet > > >>> (the Tawang region) was given to India (which > > now forms the Indian state of > > >>> Arunachal Pradesh). McMahon also recognised > > Chinese suzerainty over Tibet > > >>> and affirmed that Tibet was a part of China. > > China did not agree to this > > >>> Simla convention and hence, this treaty became > > a bilateral agreement between > > >>> India and Tibet. > > >>> > > >>> Immediately after the communist takeover of > > China, the communists took > > >>> over parts of eastern Tibet and initiated a > > process of land reforms. > > >>> Landlords were publicly humiliated and at > > times executed. However, the > > >>> traditional Tibetan aristocracy was allowed to > > remain in place till public > > >>> unrest in eastern Tibet led to a military > > crackdown, which in turn led to > > >>> the Lhasa uprising. It was at that time, Your > > Holiness, that you fled to > > >>> India. > > >>> > > >>> Your Holiness, at the time of the communist > > takeover of Tibet, Tibet was > > >>> a corrupt and undemocratic theocracy. Monks > > held all the powers and abused > > >>> them. The peasants were oppressed and lived in > > extreme poverty. One of the > > >>> reasons the Chinese were able to takeover > > Tibet so easily was because it was > > >>> a backward, feudal and theocratic state. The > > blame for this should lie > > >>> primarily on the Buddhist clergy which kept > > Tibet in the dark ages. Your > > >>> Holiness and your predecessors were always at > > the helm of such a state of > > >>> affairs. > > >>> > > >>> After Your Holiness came over to India, you > > set up a Government-in-Exile > > >>> consisting of a legislative assembly (the > > Assembly of Tibetan People's > > >>> Deputies), an executive (the Kashag), and a > > judiciary (the Tibetan Supreme > > >>> Justice Commission). You have categorised the > > Government-in-Exile as a > > >>> constitutional monarchy. Elections were held > > and exiled Tibetans voted. You > > >>> have gone into semi-retirement and if rumours > > are correct, you would like to > > >>> retire permanently. Considering the fact that > > prior to the Chinese take-over > > >>> Tibet was a full-fledged theocracy, I feel > > that you have done an admirable > > >>> job in injecting a decent dose of democracy > > into the Tibetan community. > > >>> Since almost all Tibetans are Buddhists, not > > many Tibetans have objected to > > >>> having you, the Dalai Lama, a living > > incarnation of the Lord Buddha, as the > > >>> head of the Tibetan Government-in-Exile. This > > would mean there is a shade of > > >>> theocracy in the Government-in-Exile, but I > > feel this was inevitable. > > >>> > > >>> Your Holiness, your emphasis on non-violence > > and peaceful negotiations > > >>> won you not only many admirers all over the > > world, but also the Nobel Peace > > >>> Prize in 1989. Until you threw in the towel > > last week, you have always > > >>> stated that you would be happy with greater > > autonomy under Chinese authority > > >>> (on par with what Hong Kong has) and would not > > press for independence. > > >>> However, it cannot be said Your Holiness, that > > all Tibetans have been happy > > >>> with your approach. Organisations such as the > > Tibetan Independence Movement, > > >>> the Students For a Free Tibet led by exiled > > Tibetans and supported by > > >>> celebrities like Richard Gere have insisted > > that Tibet should be > > >>> independent. They have rightly said that China > > has been diluting Tibetan > > >>> culture by flooding Tibet with Han Chinese. > > Tibet's natural wealth, > > >>> especially its forest wealth, has been > > eviscerated. Most importantly, they > > >>> say that Tibet has historically been an > > independent state. > > >>> > > >>> Your Holiness, it must not be forgotten that > > Chinese rule has brought > > >>> some benefits for Tibet. There are a lot more > > roads and railways and > > >>> industries, though it can be argued that all > > these developments further > > >>> Chinese exploitation of Tibet and facilitate > > Han Chinese expansion into > > >>> Tibet. We all know that sadly, in Tibet, the > > Han Chinese outnumber the > > >>> Tibetans. > > >>> > > >>> Your Holiness, even though you have won > > international acclaim and > > >>> admiration, you have not been able to persuade > > a single country to take > > >>> concrete measures for Tibet's > > independence. Measures such as imposing > > >>> sanctions against China and not trading with > > China. Please don't laugh at > > >>> me, Your Holiness. I do realise that the mere > > thought of not trading with > > >>> China sounds silly. Who can afford to not > > trade with China? It is not only > > >>> nation states who can't afford to > > antagonise China. A few months ago, the > > >>> London Metropolitan University awarded Your > > Holiness a doctorate in > > >>> recognition of your outstanding achievements > > in promoting global peace. The > > >>> threat of a boycott by Chinese students forced > > this British university to express > > >>> regret for any offence > > >>> > > <http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/jul/09/highereducation.uk > >caused > > >>> to the Chinese government. > > >>> > > >>> Were things always like this Your Holiness? > > No, Your Holiness. It is only > > >>> in the last ten years that China became so > > powerful. Twenty five years ago, > > >>> China was an unknown country, tolerated > > because it was a counterweight to > > >>> the Soviet Union. Your Holiness, for a couple > > of decade after you went over > > >>> to India, there were many armed groups of > > Tibetans carrying out guerrilla > > >>> operations against China. These were not on a > > very large scale and were > > >>> funded by the CIA. However, they slowly died > > down due to various reasons. > > >>> One of the reasons was that India slowly > > distanced itself from the USA and > > >>> became friendly with the USSR, which meant > > that the CIA could no longer use > > >>> India as a base for attacks on China. Your > > Holiness, I wonder if your > > >>> insistence on non-violence as the only option > > has been mainly because you've > > >>> known that neither the USA nor India would > > provide the quantum of commitment > > >>> and support that would make it feasible for > > Tibetans to fight China. > > >>> > > >>> Your Holiness, even during the period when > > China was yet to become an > > >>> economic powerhouse, you could not persuade > > Buddhist majority countries like > > >>> Thailand or Sri Lanka to boycott China. Even > > though Buddhists believe that > > >>> you are a living incarnation of Lord Buddha, > > you have not been able to build > > >>> up any following within the Buddhists among > > the Han Chinese. > > >>> > > >>> Your Holiness, would things have been > > different if you have played a less > > >>> key role right from the time you went over to > > India? I doubt it Your > > >>> Holiness. Your personality and charisma gave > > the Tibetan cause the sort of > > >>> publicity and respectability that no secular > > leader could have obtained. It > > >>> is tempting to speculate on what could have > > been achieved if a secular > > >>> person who believed in using all options had > > headed the Tibetan > > >>> Government-in-Exile right from day one. At a > > time when China was fighting > > >>> the USSR, could such a person have obtained > > independence for Tibet through > > >>> armed action? I doubt it, Your Holiness, but > > we will never know. > > >>> > > >>> Your Holiness, I believe that the head of the > > Tibetan Government-in-Exile > > >>> must not be the Dalai Lama. It must be headed > > by a secular individual. If > > >>> you are to head this Government-in-Exile, it > > becomes a theocracy and there > > >>> is no place in the modern world for a > > theocracy. However, the Tibetan > > >>> movement still needs your help. You must not > > retire completely, though you > > >>> have expressed your wish to do so. You must > > work with the Tibetan > > >>> Government-in-Exile in order to keep the > > Tibetan cause in the limelight. > > >>> History has been unkind to Tibet and its > > people. You have, in my opinion, > > >>> performed a stellar role in fighting for their > > rights. I don't think history > > >>> will judge you harshly. > > >>> > > >>> Where do we go from here, Your Holiness? I > > don't believe that there is a > > >>> magic solution to the Tibetan issue. I wonder > > what advice you will give your > > >>> fellow delegates at the forthcoming > > conference. > > >>> > > >>> There will be some hotheads who will want > > armed action against China. > > >>> Around eight months ago, in March 2008 there > > were orchestrated riots in > > >>> Tibet. Nothing much was achieved, but it did > > scare the Chinese government a > > >>> lot, since it was so close to the Olympics. > > Next time your followers try > > >>> something like that, the Chinese government > > might not be as restrained, > > >>> since the Olympics are now over and the > > Chinese couldn't give two hoots > > >>> about public opinion. > > >>> > > >>> I assume muscular lobbying is an option. The > > Tibetan cause has supporters > > >>> and well-wishers all over the world. Your > > Holiness, things can change very > > >>> quickly. If the current economic recession > > were to continue, China will not > > >>> be able to provide employment for many of its > > restless millions. If economic > > >>> unrest were to spread in China, which now has > > a vast rich-poor divide, the > > >>> Tibetan Government-in-Exile might be able to > > bargain a certain degree of > > >>> autonomy for itself. There might even be a > > fortuitous turn of events which > > >>> enables Tibetans to get their country back. > > >>> > > >>> I wish Your Holiness and the people of Tibet > > all the best for the future. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> With warm and sincere regards > > >>> > > >>> Winnowed, A blogger from the World Wide Web > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Bobby Kunhu > > http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/ > > >>> > > >>> ------------------------------ > > >>> Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! > > Invite them now. > > >>> > > >>> > > < > http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_messenger_6/*http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ > > > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> http://freebird.in > > >> > > >> > > >> ------------------------------ > > >> Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! > > Invite them now. > > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > < > http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_messenger_6/*http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to > http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/ > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
