cant save myself from saying that its really good that ranju  write these
ideas here. I think almost the same way sometimes while we go so rigid in
mind about matter of facts , while discussing about something...May be the
'myth and meaning' by Claude Levi-strauss is so relevant for these type of
discussions.. A structuralist who celebrates his 100th birthday this 28th!


On 11/17/08, ranju radha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> civilians all over the world belive or are made to belive that we live here
> peacefully because there is military at the boarder. chinese people may be
> feeling the same way.
>
> but given the context of hindu colonisation taking a violent turn and
> moving into the genocidal terror mode, one can't always belive such myths.
>
> Are we not living peacefully bz the newspaper-walla puts the newspaper at
> our door steps on time and therby, initiating us to the world around us,
> make us belive in peace and lead us to demand a peaceful world ? Yes we are.
> It is not only the jawans in kargil but also the newspaper boys in the
> streets, t make us 'belive' that we live in peace.
> but are we not paying a price for that? Living peacefully in a country of
> violence demands alot more slavish/blind belief. Belief that make us believe
> that we cant live without belief. We end up victims of that belief. but
> sometimes, or most of the time we tend to believe in  it. nationalisms are
> created out of such beliefs. patriotism is the symptm.
> boundaries are fuzzy; history can delete it with just a stroke
> We as  a trapped rat in the boundaries of nation clamour for more strong
> boundaries
> but boundary again is a myth created and re-created in our minds. the
> beliefs make us create such strong boundaries in our mind. can we break it?
> let us try once.
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 1:04 AM, bobinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> >Your Holiness, even during the period when China was yet to become an
>> economic powerhouse, you could not persuade Buddhist majority countries like
>> Thailand or Sri Lanka to boycott China.
>>
>>
>>
>> During my recent visit to north east states I happen to talk to lot of
>> Indian Buddhists. Not a huge number, hence they may not represent the
>> Buddhist community but still I was surprised to find that none of them
>> supported Dalai lama.
>>
>> Another experience is witnessing the chineese demonstration in ottawa,
>> Canada immediately after Dalai Lama's visit to Ottawa. (
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/freemind/2412774172/) I was told by the
>> chineese crowd that during a recent tibetan demonstration chineese embassy
>> was attacked and flags were burned. I was told the similar facts about the
>> visit and violence caused by the same by a Canadian photographer also.
>>
>>
>> I am not making conclusions. Simply mentioning few facts.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 10:48 PM, sreenivas v.p <
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> i support Dalai lama and the tibetan people for their freedom
>>> struggle.  expanding territory is one of the agenda of chinese communist
>>> party and they are following it religiously which resulted attacking
>>>  nieghboring countries including russia and india.
>>>
>>> some   communists were laughing saying that indian soldiers ran away
>>> fearing chinese bomb tack during 1962 war . these people should not forget
>>> that we live here peacefully for the fact that our soldiers are struggling
>>> for life in the border.
>>>
>>>
>>> sreenivas
>>> bangalore
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On *Sun, 16/11/08, Bobby Kunhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Bobby Kunhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Subject: [GreenYouth] An Open Letter to the Dalai Lama
>>> To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Greenyouth" <
>>> [email protected]>, "canopeners" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Date: Sunday, 16 November, 2008, 7:25 AM
>>>
>>>   http://winnowed.blogspot.com/2008/11/open-letter-to-dalai-lama.html 
>>> Saturday,
>>> 15 November 2008 An Open Letter to the Dalai 
>>> Lama<http://winnowed.blogspot.com/2008/11/open-letter-to-dalai-lama.html>
>>> Your Holiness,
>>>
>>> I hope this letter finds you in good health. You must be very busy right
>>> now, Your Holiness, preparing to attend the six day meet you have convened
>>> for members of the Tibetan Government-in-Exile in Dharamshala from 17
>>> November 2008 to discuss the future course of action for Tibet. I assume you
>>> are not in the best of spirits, Your Holiness. You underwent a surgery for
>>> removal of a gall bladder stone last month. You have publicly 
>>> stated<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7693052.stm>that you 
>>> have lost hope of reaching a settlement with China through
>>> dialogue. Ever since March 1959 when you left Tibet and went to India, you
>>> have been trying to obtain a better deal for Tibet and its people. You have
>>> not only always stuck to the path of non-violence, but you have also
>>> insisted that your followers do the same. All of this is admirable until one
>>> realises that, as you recently admitted, you have not managed to wring a
>>> single compromise out of China.
>>>
>>> Your Holiness, are you worried that history will judge you harshly for
>>> not having achieved anything much for the people of Tibet, despite
>>> struggling for almost 50 years? I don't have an answer to that, Your
>>> Holiness. Before we respond to that question, why don't we take a quick look
>>> at Tibet's history?
>>>
>>> The Tibetan language belongs to the Tibeto-Burman branch of the
>>> Sino-Tibetan language family. Tibetan is as much distinct from Mandarin as
>>> Burmese is. Tibet has always been an independent country. In the early 9th
>>> century, Buddhism reached Tibet after a Tibetan king invited Buddhist
>>> preachers and artisans from India. There have been occasions when Tibetan
>>> kings have defeated Chinese rulers in battle. From the 13th century onwards,
>>> Tibet was under the control of the Mongols who also controlled vast
>>> stretches of China. It was when the Mongols controlled Tibet that Buddhism
>>> spread to Mongolia. In the seventeenth century, the fifth Dalai Lama became
>>> the spiritual and temporal head of the whole of Tibet. Tibet has had wars
>>> with the kingdoms of Ladakh, Bhutan and Nepal, losing many battles and
>>> winning a few.
>>>
>>> Since the early eighteen century, the Manchu rulers of China have made
>>> claims on Tibet. However, China went into a period of decline after that and
>>> Tibet managed to assert its independence. In the early 20th century, the
>>> British led a few expeditions into Tibet in order to prevent any Russian
>>> influence in the region. The British forced the Tibetans to sign a trade
>>> treaty which opened Tibet's borders to British India. In 1907, Britain also
>>> entered into a treaty with Russia which recognised Chinese suzerainty over
>>> Tibet.
>>>
>>> After China was defeated by Japan in a series of battles in the early
>>> twentieth century, Chinese control over Tibet waned. Britain, Tibet and
>>> China held negotiations in Simla in 1913 and 1914 to resolve the boundaries
>>> between India, China and Tibet. The negotiations broke down and Henry
>>> McMahon, the then British Indian foreign secretary and the chief British
>>> negotiator, unilaterally demarcated the Indo-Tibetan border. Approximately
>>> 9,000 square kilometres of traditional Tibetan territory in southern Tibet
>>> (the Tawang region) was given to India (which now forms the Indian state of
>>> Arunachal Pradesh). McMahon also recognised Chinese suzerainty over Tibet
>>> and affirmed that Tibet was a part of China. China did not agree to this
>>> Simla convention and hence, this treaty became a bilateral agreement between
>>> India and Tibet.
>>>
>>> Immediately after the communist takeover of China, the communists took
>>> over parts of eastern Tibet and initiated a process of land reforms.
>>> Landlords were publicly humiliated and at times executed. However, the
>>> traditional Tibetan aristocracy was allowed to remain in place till public
>>> unrest in eastern Tibet led to a military crackdown, which in turn led to
>>> the Lhasa uprising. It was at that time, Your Holiness, that you fled to
>>> India.
>>>
>>> Your Holiness, at the time of the communist takeover of Tibet, Tibet was
>>> a corrupt and undemocratic theocracy. Monks held all the powers and abused
>>> them. The peasants were oppressed and lived in extreme poverty. One of the
>>> reasons the Chinese were able to takeover Tibet so easily was because it was
>>> a backward, feudal and theocratic state. The blame for this should lie
>>> primarily on the Buddhist clergy which kept Tibet in the dark ages. Your
>>> Holiness and your predecessors were always at the helm of such a state of
>>> affairs.
>>>
>>> After Your Holiness came over to India, you set up a Government-in-Exile
>>> consisting of a legislative assembly (the Assembly of Tibetan People's
>>> Deputies), an executive (the Kashag), and a judiciary (the Tibetan Supreme
>>> Justice Commission). You have categorised the Government-in-Exile as a
>>> constitutional monarchy. Elections were held and exiled Tibetans voted. You
>>> have gone into semi-retirement and if rumours are correct, you would like to
>>> retire permanently. Considering the fact that prior to the Chinese take-over
>>> Tibet was a full-fledged theocracy, I feel that you have done an admirable
>>> job in injecting a decent dose of democracy into the Tibetan community.
>>> Since almost all Tibetans are Buddhists, not many Tibetans have objected to
>>> having you, the Dalai Lama, a living incarnation of the Lord Buddha, as the
>>> head of the Tibetan Government-in-Exile. This would mean there is a shade of
>>> theocracy in the Government-in-Exile, but I feel this was inevitable.
>>>
>>> Your Holiness, your emphasis on non-violence and peaceful negotiations
>>> won you not only many admirers all over the world, but also the Nobel Peace
>>> Prize in 1989. Until you threw in the towel last week, you have always
>>> stated that you would be happy with greater autonomy under Chinese authority
>>> (on par with what Hong Kong has) and would not press for independence.
>>> However, it cannot be said Your Holiness, that all Tibetans have been happy
>>> with your approach. Organisations such as the Tibetan Independence Movement,
>>> the Students For a Free Tibet led by exiled Tibetans and supported by
>>> celebrities like Richard Gere have insisted that Tibet should be
>>> independent. They have rightly said that China has been diluting Tibetan
>>> culture by flooding Tibet with Han Chinese. Tibet's natural wealth,
>>> especially its forest wealth, has been eviscerated. Most importantly, they
>>> say that Tibet has historically been an independent state.
>>>
>>> Your Holiness, it must not be forgotten that Chinese rule has brought
>>> some benefits for Tibet. There are a lot more roads and railways and
>>> industries, though it can be argued that all these developments further
>>> Chinese exploitation of Tibet and facilitate Han Chinese expansion into
>>> Tibet. We all know that sadly, in Tibet, the Han Chinese outnumber the
>>> Tibetans.
>>>
>>> Your Holiness, even though you have won international acclaim and
>>> admiration, you have not been able to persuade a single country to take
>>> concrete measures for Tibet's independence. Measures such as imposing
>>> sanctions against China and not trading with China. Please don't laugh at
>>> me, Your Holiness. I do realise that the mere thought of not trading with
>>> China sounds silly. Who can afford to not trade with China? It is not only
>>> nation states who can't afford to antagonise China. A few months ago, the
>>> London Metropolitan University awarded Your Holiness a doctorate in
>>> recognition of your outstanding achievements in promoting global peace. The
>>> threat of a boycott by Chinese students forced this British university to 
>>> express
>>> regret for any offence
>>> <http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/jul/09/highereducation.uk>caused
>>> to the Chinese government.
>>>
>>> Were things always like this Your Holiness? No, Your Holiness. It is only
>>> in the last ten years that China became so powerful. Twenty five years ago,
>>> China was an unknown country, tolerated because it was a counterweight to
>>> the Soviet Union. Your Holiness, for a couple of decade after you went over
>>> to India, there were many armed groups of Tibetans carrying out guerrilla
>>> operations against China. These were not on a very large scale and were
>>> funded by the CIA. However, they slowly died down due to various reasons.
>>> One of the reasons was that India slowly distanced itself from the USA and
>>> became friendly with the USSR, which meant that the CIA could no longer use
>>> India as a base for attacks on China. Your Holiness, I wonder if your
>>> insistence on non-violence as the only option has been mainly because you've
>>> known that neither the USA nor India would provide the quantum of commitment
>>> and support that would make it feasible for Tibetans to fight China.
>>>
>>> Your Holiness, even during the period when China was yet to become an
>>> economic powerhouse, you could not persuade Buddhist majority countries like
>>> Thailand or Sri Lanka to boycott China. Even though Buddhists believe that
>>> you are a living incarnation of Lord Buddha, you have not been able to build
>>> up any following within the Buddhists among the Han Chinese.
>>>
>>> Your Holiness, would things have been different if you have played a less
>>> key role right from the time you went over to India? I doubt it Your
>>> Holiness. Your personality and charisma gave the Tibetan cause the sort of
>>> publicity and respectability that no secular leader could have obtained. It
>>> is tempting to speculate on what could have been achieved if a secular
>>> person who believed in using all options had headed the Tibetan
>>> Government-in-Exile right from day one. At a time when China was fighting
>>> the USSR, could such a person have obtained independence for Tibet through
>>> armed action? I doubt it, Your Holiness, but we will never know.
>>>
>>> Your Holiness, I believe that the head of the Tibetan Government-in-Exile
>>> must not be the Dalai Lama. It must be headed by a secular individual. If
>>> you are to head this Government-in-Exile, it becomes a theocracy and there
>>> is no place in the modern world for a theocracy. However, the Tibetan
>>> movement still needs your help. You must not retire completely, though you
>>> have expressed your wish to do so. You must work with the Tibetan
>>> Government-in-Exile in order to keep the Tibetan cause in the limelight.
>>> History has been unkind to Tibet and its people. You have, in my opinion,
>>> performed a stellar role in fighting for their rights. I don't think history
>>> will judge you harshly.
>>>
>>> Where do we go from here, Your Holiness? I don't believe that there is a
>>> magic solution to the Tibetan issue. I wonder what advice you will give your
>>> fellow delegates at the forthcoming conference.
>>>
>>> There will be some hotheads who will want armed action against China.
>>> Around eight months ago, in March 2008 there were orchestrated riots in
>>> Tibet. Nothing much was achieved, but it did scare the Chinese government a
>>> lot, since it was so close to the Olympics. Next time your followers try
>>> something like that, the Chinese government might not be as restrained,
>>> since the Olympics are now over and the Chinese couldn't give two hoots
>>> about public opinion.
>>>
>>> I assume muscular lobbying is an option. The Tibetan cause has supporters
>>> and well-wishers all over the world. Your Holiness, things can change very
>>> quickly. If the current economic recession were to continue, China will not
>>> be able to provide employment for many of its restless millions. If economic
>>> unrest were to spread in China, which now has a vast rich-poor divide, the
>>> Tibetan Government-in-Exile might be able to bargain a certain degree of
>>> autonomy for itself. There might even be a fortuitous turn of events which
>>> enables Tibetans to get their country back.
>>>
>>> I wish Your Holiness and the people of Tibet all the best for the future.
>>>
>>>
>>> With warm and sincere regards
>>>
>>> Winnowed, A blogger from the World Wide Web
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bobby Kunhu http://community.eldis.org/myshkin/Blog/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Invite them now.
>>>
>>> <http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_messenger_6/*http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> http://freebird.in
>>
>> >>
>>
>>
>


-- 
Maya S.
School of Social Sciences
Mahatma Gandhi University
Kottayam-41
Kerala, India

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