On Nov 10, 2009, at 4:16 AM, Paul Davis wrote:

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Jack Skellington <dac...@gmail.com> wrote:

Also if a native Gtk+ OS X framework were available people who are
maintaining Gtk+ apps would have the option to extend their user base
to OS X quite quickly.

All it requires to use it is to build the GTK stack yourself using the
instructions provided (i wish the instructions had not been moved away
from gnome.org, but they are still easy to find). I should put "all"
in quotes because if you choose to follow bleeding edge GTK then you
will find that maintaining your built version can be quite a lot of
work in the face of breakages and changes in many different parts of
the stack. This is not true (or at least, it is MUCH less true) if you
use a recent release version (there are instructions on how to do that
included in the gtk osx build info).

I do not believe that using a pre-built GTK OS X framework is
desirable for users or developers. Include GTK as part of your app
bundle. Its not hard to do and gives you complete control over which
version of GTK is used by your app. We do this for Ardour (and now
Mixbus) (screenshots at http://ardour.org/ and
http://mixbus.harrisonconsoles.com/). Users download a single app, and
run it. No framework installation or maintainance.

I haven't built and made available updated frameworks because the approach Richard used to create the first one (still hanging around on gtk-osx.org , as previously noted elsewhere) didn't produce a result that I think I can support. I have in mind a modification of ige-mac-bundler which I think will provide better results, but other tasks have higher priority at the moment.

Some others, including me, have done some work on the gtk-osx- frameworks, and the network graph at github shows that my tree (http://github.com/jralls/gtk-osx-framework ) is current with all of them . Do be aware that there are 3 branches, of which master is probably the only one which will get you close enough to use.

I also agree with Paul here: The Apple Framework idiom doesn't make sense for cross-platform development. It uses special #include syntax and special linking. It doesn't play well with pkg-config. Yes, those are solvable problems, but why? The regular gnu autotools work very well indeed on OSX, and one needs to use it anyway for building on Linux. Why deal with another build chain just for the dubious benefit of using XCode instead of emacs or vim?

Add to that that it's hard to build a non-trivial application using only gtk+. You're going to need a bunch of other libraries, either from gnome, gnu, or freedesktop. They're not going to be in Frameworks, so you're going to have to integrate them the autotools way, so what do you gain from having gtk+ in a set of frameworks?

There is one exception to which I'm quite sympathetic: PyGtk. At present building a downloadable PyGtk app bundle is a royal pain, and a PyGtk framework *might* be part of the solution.

John Ralls

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