RSRBOB, I understand your position, but I disagree with most of your
findings. If your opinion is that the average filter is good enough for
you, fine, I can readily accept that.
I think the original question was "is the stock filter good enough? is
there something better?". I think it is good enough, but there also appears
to be better filters.
Regarding the various filter studies: The numbers were a weighted score
developed by the tester. Emphasis was on filtration quality, i.e. getting
the particles out of the oil as quickly as possible, without affecting flow
and pressure. Things like assembly quality were given low weights as long
as the filter functioned properly. However, assembly quality regarding the
filter media and the bypass valve affect the basic mechanics of the process,
so if they dont fit well, leak/bleed, etc., then you can cause higher wear
or even damage.
As an example, take the steel can thickness. In very cold climates, where
startup pressures can get very very high (over 100-150 psi psi), then the
quality of the can and seal and relef valve is very important. I have a
friend (chevy mechanic) and another (diesel mechanic) that swapped stories
at a party regarding exploding oil filters in cold weather. The chevy guy
who works at a busy dealership mentioned that they get 3-4 cases a winter of
exploding filters. Sometimes it is a seal failure, sometimes the can.
If the bypass valve is of poor quality, it can either let oil get by that
needs to be filtered, or never release causing excessive pressure. This
second cause, along with really cheap filters with NO bypass valve, causes
can/seal bursts.
My brother in law, who lived in West Va. for a while, had a jeep CJ-7. He
lived on top of a very remote hill that was a heck of a climb to the top, on
a dirt road that was more rocks than dirt. He tended to suffer at least 2
flats a year due to sidewall punctures just from his "driveway". One time
on a downhill run, he had a small rock puncture the oil filter, but he
discovered it quickly before damage was done. After that, he always used
Fram HP filters, which have extra thick cases.
If the filter media does not trap dirt quick enough, it leads to excessive
wear. The problem is that this is not obvious until you have high mileage
on the engine. Its the difference between being worn out at 75k miles vs.
still running strong at 200k miles.
The SAE paper and the Dodge guy actually measured the square inches of
filter media, loft of the media, type of media etc. These were also
factored in. The SAE paper tried to quantify the dirt holding capacity.
Amsoil actually prints some sort of specs on dirt holding capacity of their
filters, but I am not sure if anybody else does. They also indicate the
first pass efficency. PS, those scores I mention in the other message were
the subjective scores, not first pass efficency, sorry if I confused the
issue.
Many people advocate changing the filters every other oil change. Dirt
holding capacity them becomes very important.
So I would sum up my position as follows: You have the choice of spending
$200 more over 100k miles of travel for synthetic oil and better filters, to
ensure your engine will go another 100k miles. (I am thinking car, but any
vehicle will fit). OR, After 100k miles, your engine is worn out, but you
saved $200. That is not even counting gas savings due to synthetic oil
(1-4% depending on your source), and time savings by only changing at normal
intervals instead of 3k miles. My opinion is that this extra money is money
well spent.
I will grant you that synthetic oil is where the main benifits occur, and
a better filter has less of a gain, but I feel it is a gain none the less.
Also, you got my curiosity up, perhaps I will cut open some stock GTS
filters and take some pictures fo the list.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 9:30 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Filters (was oil)
My question is.
Although you found differences between what was deemed the best oil filter
for other applications, are the differences significant?
Earlier you stated numbers relating to filtration. All the filters had a
different number. In taking the top two as an example, if there was a
difference of 5 in the numbers, all other things being equal, how many
additional miles would one realize before needing the tear down and rebuild
due to wear and tear? 100 miles? 500 miles? 1000 or more? Although hard data
is nice, if it cannot be related to real world scenarios, it looses its
impact. Some of the other factors, and I am not picking on you, also seem
subjective. The thickness of the case, the quality of the pressure relief
valve, length of filter material on the surface are legitimate concerns but
again in the real world are they significant? If the case has reasonable
resistance to puncture, then it is indeed adequate. Things like this to me
are either pass or fail. It works as designed or it doesn't. The pressure
relief valve should not be a factor on a well maintained motorcycle. One
thing I have never seen either is exactly how much debris will an oil filter
hold? Capacity is always a topic, but in reality, how far would one have to
go to "fill" an oil filter media? My point being if the distance it would
take is twice what you would ever go without changing the filter, who cares
if you have that additional storage? Mileage times two plus 20% is no longer
significant either. About the only exception that comes to mind here is the
LDR of the group. I believe they will be the first to tell you that even
they
do not consider their riding styles and tastes within the norm of the
motorcycling public. All in all it sounds like as far as we can tell the
stock oil filter looks to be as good as any out there and better than most.
Other than that....... it is like picking the fly poo out of the pepper.
RSRBOB
