Sorry for the late reply:
Bob, I consider us all one big group of friends, so that is why I reply on
this list. I feel others will either benfit from, or share their knowledge
with us. I get the sense that you feel there was a personal attack against
you, which is incorrect (at least in intent). SO TAKE THAT BIATCH !! (lame
attempt at humor). OK, enough of that....
You are correct that I make a generalization between cars and bikes. I did
that on purpose, as I intended to be more generic in my topic. Other than
your point about really cold weather, I still feel that the differences are
negligible.
Your previous message you asked "why should I care about can
quality/thickness/strength" (I am paraphrasing here). My cold weather
example shows why. I personally have ridden my previous bikes frequenty in
sub-freezing weather, down to about 10 degrees F. (Not by choice, rather my
car was stolen). No, I have never seen a bike can burst, never even heard
of it. I have never seen an auto can burst either, but I have seen pictures
and been told first hand about it.
As for wear particles, I can quote from both SAE papers and Amsoil
liturature that shows that the common low end filters trap to about 50-55
microns, and better filters trap down to about 40 microns. However, the
Mobil 1 (from the SAE paper) and the Amsoil (SAE paper and Amsoil specs) can
trap down to about 10 microns. The trick is to get the smaller particals
without causing a large pressure loss, which requires more expensive
materials and designs (read $$ to the consumer). The SAE paper indicates
that since particals down to about 50 microns are commonly removed, then the
bulk of wear is now caused by smaller stuff. The difference between 50
microns and 10 microns is 400% (is my math correct ?). Install a bypass
filter similar to those used on large diesels in boats or tractor trailers,
and you filter down to less than 1 micron. I have one of those on my Chevy
Suburban, and based on labratory oil analysis they work.
Somebody else mentioned the bypass valve in the filter vs. the bypass
valve in the engine. If I remember correctly, they act under different
conditions. The engine bypass valve prevents too high of pressure to the
rest of the system (including oil filter). The bypass valve acts to prevent
too low of pressure if the filter becomes clogged/too much dirt. If I
remember correctly, the filter bypass valve is supposed to act under a
pressure DIFFERENTIAL of 11 psi. As far as burst cans, the engine bypass
should prevent that (but not always as I pointed out earlier.
As for showing you that the stock filter is not top quality, I cannot do
that, and did not really intend to. I dont have enough information on it.
I can only theorize that since other vendors claim to be better in X, Y and
Z (and proven by independant testing), and they CLAIM to be better in W,
then based on credibility earned previously, W is probably true.
Bob, thanks for your comments, and you are correct that we are probably
beating this thing to the ground. I conceed that you are correct that
although bikes and cars are similar, they are not identical, and one must
be carefull in generalizations.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 7:14 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Filters (was oil)
Since you choose to reply on list, I will do the same.
Your findings site automotive instances and applications. I contend that
although the idea and function is similar, one can not accurately assume
that
they are identical.
One thing you did mention rather specifically was the difference between an
engine lasting 75,000 miles and 200,000 miles. If an oil filter could
achieve
that, certainly it would show up as superior in filtration testing. To
acieve
an increase of mileage percentage wise of 266.666% you are not talking about
the difference in one micron filtration. This doesnt add up.
As far as can thickness, exactly how many MOTORCYCLES have you seen split
their can? Statistically, if the weather is that freaking cold, how many
people are really riding their motorcycles? If people do not operate them in
such conditions, again, what is the significance of it?
I am not saying what you say is wrong. I am disagreeing that just because
there are certain givens in the automotive industry, that they are also a
given in the motorcycle industry. To assume that or insinuate that is not
supported by fact.
To belabor this further is pointless.
As for me, I do want a top quality oil filter for my bike. You have still
shown me nothing that would indicate the stock oil filter is not a top
quality choice.
RSRBOB
