Hey Steven, thanks for reminding me of some of the particulars.
YOu know what?
I read about all this stuff, I knew there was some compatibility made
for xp stuff, but probably wouldn't work for screen-readers since
they tend to have to hook in at a lower level.
I remember all the security and driver issues, and all the fuss about
it when vista came out.
I'd read some good telling stuff about it.
I guess I just forgot about that stuff.
Since most of my fellow musicians blew off vista as a bad deal, I
never dealt with it directly, so out of sight and out of mind.
It was enough for me to take recommendations from my daw makers, and
others, and to not buy in to the already cramped 32 bit memory
environment for another 32 bit os and get more problems when xp was
stable and mature and would run everything well.
Most of us will probably be hopping on the 64 bit band wagon sooner or later.
Thanks for respecfully reminding me of what I knew and forgot about 'grin'.
So it's not a complete supprise, but damn this Tennis shoe tastes
terrible 'grin'.
That'll teach me huh?
All the best.
At 01:07 PM 7/31/2009, Stephen Clower wrote:
Chris,
Time to become surprised. The internals of Vista are nothing like
Windows 2000 or XP. Every program that hooks into XP required
extensive rewriting to work inside Vista. Take the display drivers,
for example. Mirror drivers are a totally different beast from the
hit-or-miss DCM scheme we've come to accept as a part of every day
life with Windows XP. The audio driver subsystem is different, as
are the security and file access schemes. And let's not forget that
driver manufacturers had to write all of their code again so
hardware would run in Vista.
If porting from one 32-bit OS were as easy as you claim it is, Vista
as a whole would have been more widely accepted by the public. The
meer fact that it wasn't by the majority of professionals, or indeed
by your fellow music producers, speaks for itself. This is a case
where you really do have to understand what happens behind the
scenes to realize the enormity of work that was accomplished by all
of the screen reader designers to make their products run inside
Vista. A broad, or what you call common sense, approach, doesn't
apply in this case. Should the transition have been easy? Sure. But
Microsoft had a lot of major changes in mind for Windows Vista, and
that unfortunately broke a lot of programs that relied on XP's
design to function.
Converting from one operating system to another is never an easy
task. It does appear that transitioning from Vista to Windows 7 was,
and will be, much easier than it was from XP to Vista, simply
because Microsoft didn't pull the rug out from under everybody this go around.
Steve
On 7/31/2009 12:43 PM, Chris Belle wrote:
Well, I'm glad I got an intelligent response from you anyway, can
always count on that from you even if we don't always agree.
Thanks for agnoledgeing that there are some users who need the
extra performance, I believe computer manufacturers responded to
the needs of the public since most of the modern computer world is
64 bit and efi based and all that good stuff.
I understand gw is large and in charge, and makes the final
decission, just like I do in my business.
But as a customer, and never mind what other people think of my
methods, you make everyone mad on a list when you step out of the
mold, and don't just praise anything that goes down around here,
and I did give you guys credit and appreciation for getting 64 bit to us.
No I don't know what it took to get vista 32 bit going, but from a
common sense stand-point and being a technical person and
understanding the big picture of pprogramming even if I don't know
code specifically, it makes sense to me that going to another 32
bit platform probably didn't entail a complete re-write, where as
64 bit was harder to do.
I'd be very supprised if this wasn't the case.
So answer this if you dare, was doing vista 32 easier, or was 64 bit easier?
Well, you more or less told me I was right in a round about way
while spanking me for questioning the holy graille, so that's ok.
Atleast I got a decent answer from you and I appreciate it rather
than a bunch of upset sillyness which was yn-warranted.
But people have the right to say what they feel, and I'm glad you
don't sensor this list, the open nature, non-copy protection and at
least some respect for customers is what keeps me hanging on, and
coming back here and bitching and saying hey, anything for my crowd
yet, hello, we're waiting 'grin'.
have a good day.
And again, thanks for 64 bit.
At 12:10 PM 7/31/2009, you wrote:
Chris you make a lot of assumptions here. First we don't sensor
this list and don't allow only GW cheer leaders to post to
it. Second you have no idea what was involved in going to 32-bit
Vista from XP or to 64-bit Vista from 32-bit. Third we make
decisions about what to do based on what we think will help the
most number of people because we don't have resources to do
everything. I do believe that 64-bit became more popular more
quickly than we originally believed and most of this was due to
computer manufacturers pushing out to market quickly probably to
simplify there product lines if I had to guess.
Obviously 64-bit will currently do nothing for 99% fof users
reading email, browsing the web, etc so the rush to transition to
it has to have been done for the convenience of computer
manufacturers. This doesn't mean that you and others didn't need
it only that the vast majority of people didn't. Also just for
the record pushing harder because we are getting fat and lazy and
don't have enough to do won't help your cause. We have more than
enough to do and put in many many hours trying to do it so keep
that in mind when approaching us. I truly feel that we work as
hard as possible to solve issues of Windows accessibility given our resources.
At 09:10 PM 7/30/2009, you wrote:
Whoops, got a cheer-leader mad, sorry.
Nope, not a programmer, never said I was, what I meant to say was
that porting from xp to 32 bit vista was easier than porting to
64 bit so that's why gwmicro decided to do the easy code instead
of tackling 64 bit, you know the immediate gratification thing.
But the easy path isn't always the best one because 64 bit is
gonna be a much bigger player than 32 bit vista or windows 7 and
we're seeing that now.
I just looked at what I wrote, and I can maybe see why you might
have gotten that confused,
but taking things in context and what I wrote afterwords, it
seems pretty clear to me what I was saying.
Maybe that's a limitation of the programming mind 'grin'.
But no offense intended, all the cheer-leaders can sit down, and
if it weren't for people like me pushing the envelope, and
expecting the highest for our hard-earned money, these guys would
get fat and lazy and really get behind.
I have to keep up to be competitive in my field of expertise, so
I expect the best tools for the job.
As long as I've got money invested in gwmicro, I have a right to
expect the best, just as my clients I do work for have the right
to expect the best from me and believe me, they do, they keep me on my toes.
So, my email was a compliment to the company in fact,
maybe not a cheer-leader style, because the way it goes on these
lists is that you tote the party line and don't say anything bad
and then appologize when you do ask for something or mention
something that needs to be done, or that should have been done.
I won't do that, I tell it like it is.
I'll do it respectfully, and some times I might pull a chain or
be a little cheeky, but that's just how I am, people that don't
like my posts can hit the delete key 'grin'.
I know this is hard work but if your going to be the best and say
your the best, then deliver the best.
It doesn't matter now, we've got 64 bit.
I just think in retrospect that gwmicro would have served
themselves better if 64 bit had been a priority earlier rather
than 32 bit vista.
But yes, I do indeed understand that that would have been the
harder thing to do.
Regards.
At 07:01 PM 7/30/2009, you wrote:
A small task to port a screen reader from 32 bit to 64
bit? Hmmm, Chris, what programming expertise do you have to
warrant such a statement?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Belle" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: Window eyes and 64bit systems
Actually, our guys came through and weren't lagging too far
behind the competition on this one, makes me proud.
We indeed have 64 bit.
I mentioned to the fine folks about some time ago, or some such
when vista 32 had just come out and that was probably the easy code to do.
I said 64 bit was gonna be the big thing, and they were
starting to become more and more on systems even then.
I got spanked for mentioning such a thing 'grin',
because gw were patting themselves on the back for vista 32 release,
but serious attention could and should have been implemented
then because some of us could see which way the pig was running.
And sure enough, 64 bit is taking over now and how nice if we'd
been first because vista 32 isn't that big a deal and I believe
in my heart that 64 bit flavor of vista, and most likely 64 bit
windows 7 will be the winner like xp is.
Vista 32 was a big flop in the industry and everybody knows it.
Hmmm, let's see 4 gig architectural limit, but more over-head
for the os equals less memory for the programs, equals doggy performance.
So atleast now because I don't have a 64 bit version of jaws,
if I want to slap 64 bit sonar on this fine dual core machine
and not cripple it with a 32 bit os, and really get in to high
gear, even with no scripts and such, I might have some chance
at access because all the versions of sonar since version 5 will do 64 bit.
So thanks guys for not making me wait too long 'grin'.
At 05:32 PM 7/30/2009, you wrote:
Hi,
Does WE support 64 bit OS yet? I'm asking because I placed a order on
Monday for a new desktop system from Dell and I just found out
that it's a
64 bit system. I really hope it is one because I haven't been
around in a
while.
Otis
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