Hi: I was and am a Computer Programmer. I have done a little reading on
accessibility technicals. They are complex indeed. An individual programmer
may be able to make some features of select applications work in a decent
manner. That said, supporting multiple Voice Drivers, Braille outputs and
maintaining legacy code from the prior MSAA to the new UIA and the new Web
Standards for XML 5 and the new dynamics is a diferent story. Add into that
support for the entirely diferent accessibility technicals used by IBM,
Apple, Linux and various other software like the several popular browsers
and specialized applications, and you might start to understand the
diference between what an individual programmer such as Shane may be able to
do compared to a company which has several highly skilled programmers
working on the product. I have not seen Shane's software either on the open
market nor discussed on the Blind-Programming e-list where many blind
programmers float around from time to time. That would seem to be the place
he would look for beta testors. Do not give Shane any real support until you
"see the goods". His claims seem to me to be massively over optimistic if
not just plain false. Ya, I would love a very compact, fast, clean and cheap
screen reader but that puppy does not exist and won't until there are
government industry standards concerning accessibility technicals.
Those of you who have slammed each other are fools because you are fighyting
for something that you have no clue about. You are just fighting to hear
yourself fight and, perhaps, that is what Shane is all about in the first
place?I will not comment further on this thread until I see Shane's work or
read reviews by respected blind individuals who use it.
I have known people in my life who liked to play a mind game called "let's
you and him fight".I am not saying Shane is about that but he has given us
nothing but noise so far which makes me wonder why. Also, to say that the
Owners, Managers and nerds in the WE Programming group would steal his code
is ridiculus.
I am pretty sure Aaron, Doug and the others at GW Micro are Programmers,
perhaps even Software
Engineers, with many, many years of Programming experience and would not
need Shane's code to accomplish any accessibility technical implementation.
There is no magic to writing computer code. It is all the same for all of
us. You just figure out what you want to do and use the available tools to
do the job. Education and Experience will dictate the tools used to solve a
problem and GW seems to be trying to use the correct, all be it complex,
tools for the job they are attempting to do.
So, do not be a fool and fight with each other without having the "goods in
hand" to fight over.
Rick USA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Belle" <[email protected]>
To: "shane findley" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 5:07 AM
Subject: Re: GW Micro Responds to the Future of Screen Readers Discussion
Panel Questions
Shane,
Never mind the small minds on here that can't comprehend that anybody but
official microsoft programmers, or the in house screen-reader programmer
company are the only ones who can do anything.
They don't understand how programming works, you know, I'm somewhat of a
developer myself,
I teach, and train, and run my own studio, and when I posted a small very
useful script for sale on here a few months back, I got lots of
negativity.
but never be discouraged, because folks approached me privately, and I got
sales and happy customers out of it.
There are good professional people here, but many of the sheltered
blindies who just like to run their mouths, and create bad feeling,
because they don't do anything productive themselves, don't have a job,
career, or anything that's meaningful in their lives, so they just tear
down other people's work.
I don't know about the Karen chick, but I know Robert generally
loves to be a ful time asshole,
he hasn't stirred the pot lately,
but anyway, just consider the people who've responded to you.
If your the real deal, and have written some useful apps, then I
congratulate you, and thanks for letting us know,
and you guys who haven't even looked at his work, and don't know a hard
drive from a hand job, shut the fuck up.
At least someone is stepping up to the plate and trying to do something
for us, never mind if they speak the king's english like you think they
should.
YOu guys don't deserve any better.
Now if you go check his files out, and they don't work, or are full of
viruses, then by all means, say something, otherwise, your just showing;
your ass.
Yes, I'm showing mine right now too, but you know what?
I hate stupidity, and short sightedness and ignorance displayed like this.
Just talking about someone because he posted some utilities, and told you
about his work.
And maybe some of it might work better than some things window-eyes does,
what's the crime in that?
You guys get a clue, and get a life, go do something useful.
At 09:52 PM 9/1/2010, shane findley wrote:
I have written an on screen keyboard that is much better than microsofts
third party on screen keyboard for Windows 7. I released before they did.
My article is here, and should change some of your minds about my
credability.
<http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/keyboard/article.php/c16501/>http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/keyboard/article.php/c16501/
Also I wrote a sendkeys module, that won the codeguru award in 2008.
<http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/keyboard/article.php/c14629__1/>http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/keyboard/article.php/c14629__1/
And I re-wrote the UAC(User account control) to be safer, and much less
annoying to use.
<http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/win32/article.php/c16565/>http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/win32/article.php/c16565/
Anyhow, I understand the loyalty of window eyes users, its okay to bash me
until you know who I am, and what I've got.
The demo is mostly for developer collaboration, and is in the final stages
where it can be tested by others. That's why I tried to contact GW, but
was ignored. They are busy, and probably didn't believe me. I
understand, they are big boys now.
It has not been officially released for sale yet. The setup is incomplete
without audio, but that will be different later ofcourse. Voiceware Kate,
and Paul are not included but work great with the software on Vista/7 too!
I wanted to get final feedback from blind users, and over the next couple
months perfect and polish the software. I can close my eyes too, and I
have many times during testing, and developing, but I am well aware that
there are biases, which I may have overlooked. Not many, but I'm not
oblivious either.
Are you sighted, or totally blind?
Are you using xp, Vista or Windows 7?
Do you have .NET 2.0 or higher installed?
The demo is best with xp right now, since I lost some details in Vista/7
after the last filter update. I will get those tricky controls back.
Vista and 7 were quirky along the way, but things have stabalized
recently. I spent most time this summer working on the foundation, which
was the most important, and I will finish the application for Vista/7
soon(within a few weeks), so the experience is professional and without
bugs on all systems.
You will find that almost all standard windows will have FULL access,
within quick reach.
And a customizable filter ofcourse.
For example taskbar objects, all task manager controls, all explorer
controls, all notepad controls etc. If you press shift while refreshing
you get additional client windows in the scrollable list. Those were
uncommon, but still an accessible point, usually a button.
I also hybrided HotSpots into the mix, so that common points can be
included in the scrollable list. Over a short period of time most web
windows will be mostly accessible, by
writing very general rules, and specific rules to filter uneeded, or
needed window controls and their objects.
Quick instructions, you move the mouse into a category, left to right.
Locked in statically, so that the mouse does not move, but the category
changes with voice feedback.
Then you scroll to move the mouse over any and all controls. Controls are
items on a form, so scroll them, as if they were text items! Its genius
in it's simplisity, but I can see why it's hard to pull off, or yet never
done.
The categories are in this order:
Main Window, Control Under Mouse, and Selected Item.
The main window category can also move the mouse down to the taskbar, or
up towards the desktop. At any time to get more information about the
control under the mouse, right click and hold for one second, to read the
description of that control.
I will change the demo to 30 minutes, and I will do a final proof read
before uploading the 30 minute demo. No need for rebooting though, you
may start the app again under the license terms.
Please allow me to post the demo in the morning, when I complete another
proof read.
I use mediafire to host files, or directly though email since the file
size is digestable.
If anyone has objections to mediafire, then where can I upload the demo
that you trust?
You should always scan files, but it's not wise to use any old freeware
for this purpose.
At least not the ones that popup on a webpage, those are viruses usually
with the mask on to help you, or promote sister companies by filtering an
app as a virus.
Thanks
If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender
only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is
related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to
[email protected] so the entire list will receive it.
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This email could contain innocent phrases which, if taken out of context,
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politically correct world view could induce cursing, abusive language, or
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No ill will is intended.
The sender takes no responsibility for mis-interpretation or otherwise
extrapolated extended meaning, intent, or purposes implied or imagined
from said phrases.
The receiver of any such email containing such phrases is solely
responsible for good
interpretation and intelligent deployment of subsequent responses to the
above communication.
If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender
only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is
related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Belle" <[email protected]>
To: "shane findley" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 5:07 AM
Subject: Re: GW Micro Responds to the Future of Screen Readers Discussion
Panel Questions
Shane,
Never mind the small minds on here that can't comprehend that anybody but
official microsoft programmers, or the in house screen-reader programmer
company are the only ones who can do anything.
They don't understand how programming works, you know, I'm somewhat of a
developer myself,
I teach, and train, and run my own studio, and when I posted a small very
useful script for sale on here a few months back, I got lots of
negativity.
but never be discouraged, because folks approached me privately, and I got
sales and happy customers out of it.
There are good professional people here, but many of the sheltered
blindies who just like to run their mouths, and create bad feeling,
because they don't do anything productive themselves, don't have a job,
career, or anything that's meaningful in their lives, so they just tear
down other people's work.
I don't know about the Karen chick, but I know Robert generally
loves to be a ful time asshole,
he hasn't stirred the pot lately,
but anyway, just consider the people who've responded to you.
If your the real deal, and have written some useful apps, then I
congratulate you, and thanks for letting us know,
and you guys who haven't even looked at his work, and don't know a hard
drive from a hand job, shut the fuck up.
At least someone is stepping up to the plate and trying to do something
for us, never mind if they speak the king's english like you think they
should.
YOu guys don't deserve any better.
Now if you go check his files out, and they don't work, or are full of
viruses, then by all means, say something, otherwise, your just showing;
your ass.
Yes, I'm showing mine right now too, but you know what?
I hate stupidity, and short sightedness and ignorance displayed like this.
Just talking about someone because he posted some utilities, and told you
about his work.
And maybe some of it might work better than some things window-eyes does,
what's the crime in that?
You guys get a clue, and get a life, go do something useful.
At 09:52 PM 9/1/2010, shane findley wrote:
I have written an on screen keyboard that is much better than microsofts
third party on screen keyboard for Windows 7. I released before they did.
My article is here, and should change some of your minds about my
credability.
<http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/keyboard/article.php/c16501/>http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/keyboard/article.php/c16501/
Also I wrote a sendkeys module, that won the codeguru award in 2008.
<http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/keyboard/article.php/c14629__1/>http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/keyboard/article.php/c14629__1/
And I re-wrote the UAC(User account control) to be safer, and much less
annoying to use.
<http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/win32/article.php/c16565/>http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/win32/article.php/c16565/
Anyhow, I understand the loyalty of window eyes users, its okay to bash me
until you know who I am, and what I've got.
The demo is mostly for developer collaboration, and is in the final stages
where it can be tested by others. That's why I tried to contact GW, but
was ignored. They are busy, and probably didn't believe me. I
understand, they are big boys now.
It has not been officially released for sale yet. The setup is incomplete
without audio, but that will be different later ofcourse. Voiceware Kate,
and Paul are not included but work great with the software on Vista/7 too!
I wanted to get final feedback from blind users, and over the next couple
months perfect and polish the software. I can close my eyes too, and I
have many times during testing, and developing, but I am well aware that
there are biases, which I may have overlooked. Not many, but I'm not
oblivious either.
Are you sighted, or totally blind?
Are you using xp, Vista or Windows 7?
Do you have .NET 2.0 or higher installed?
The demo is best with xp right now, since I lost some details in Vista/7
after the last filter update. I will get those tricky controls back.
Vista and 7 were quirky along the way, but things have stabalized
recently. I spent most time this summer working on the foundation, which
was the most important, and I will finish the application for Vista/7
soon(within a few weeks), so the experience is professional and without
bugs on all systems.
You will find that almost all standard windows will have FULL access,
within quick reach.
And a customizable filter ofcourse.
For example taskbar objects, all task manager controls, all explorer
controls, all notepad controls etc. If you press shift while refreshing
you get additional client windows in the scrollable list. Those were
uncommon, but still an accessible point, usually a button.
I also hybrided HotSpots into the mix, so that common points can be
included in the scrollable list. Over a short period of time most web
windows will be mostly accessible, by
writing very general rules, and specific rules to filter uneeded, or
needed window controls and their objects.
Quick instructions, you move the mouse into a category, left to right.
Locked in statically, so that the mouse does not move, but the category
changes with voice feedback.
Then you scroll to move the mouse over any and all controls. Controls are
items on a form, so scroll them, as if they were text items! Its genius
in it's simplisity, but I can see why it's hard to pull off, or yet never
done.
The categories are in this order:
Main Window, Control Under Mouse, and Selected Item.
The main window category can also move the mouse down to the taskbar, or
up towards the desktop. At any time to get more information about the
control under the mouse, right click and hold for one second, to read the
description of that control.
I will change the demo to 30 minutes, and I will do a final proof read
before uploading the 30 minute demo. No need for rebooting though, you
may start the app again under the license terms.
Please allow me to post the demo in the morning, when I complete another
proof read.
I use mediafire to host files, or directly though email since the file
size is digestable.
If anyone has objections to mediafire, then where can I upload the demo
that you trust?
You should always scan files, but it's not wise to use any old freeware
for this purpose.
At least not the ones that popup on a webpage, those are viruses usually
with the mask on to help you, or promote sister companies by filtering an
app as a virus.
Thanks
If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender
only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is
related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to
[email protected] so the entire list will receive it.
GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can
manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
WARNING!!!
This email could contain innocent phrases which, if taken out of context,
or read from an existing inclination to be hostile, or an overly
politically correct world view could induce cursing, abusive language, or
other indications of less than desirable behavior in a public venue.
No ill will is intended.
The sender takes no responsibility for mis-interpretation or otherwise
extrapolated extended meaning, intent, or purposes implied or imagined
from said phrases.
The receiver of any such email containing such phrases is solely
responsible for good
interpretation and intelligent deployment of subsequent responses to the
above communication.
If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender
only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is
related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to
[email protected] so the entire list will receive it.
GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can
manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only.
If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to
GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so
the entire list will receive it.
GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage
your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
