Good advice.
Even though I expressed myself strongly, I really have no desire to
slam anyone,
I just think an individual aught to come on here and advertise his wares,
without geting a whole lot of hell.
Of course writing a screen-reader is incredibly tough,
but never say never,
look at nvda, and how powerful it is and does some things the big
boys won't do on the web.
That doesn't mean we or jaws aren't any good,
or invalidated,
last time I checked, I'm still paying gwmicro money 'grin'.
And I think this guy's english is not his first language.
Still, yes, his presentation could have been better.
but he showed some sensitivity afterwords,
email lists are terrible because you never get the full intent of
people, only cold hard text.
have a nice day.
At 06:51 AM 9/2/2010, RicksPlace wrote:
Hi: I was and am a Computer Programmer. I have done a little reading
on accessibility technicals. They are complex indeed. An individual
programmer may be able to make some features of select applications
work in a decent manner. That said, supporting multiple Voice
Drivers, Braille outputs and maintaining legacy code from the prior
MSAA to the new UIA and the new Web Standards for XML 5 and the new
dynamics is a diferent story. Add into that support for the entirely
diferent accessibility technicals used by IBM, Apple, Linux and
various other software like the several popular browsers and
specialized applications, and you might start to understand the
diference between what an individual programmer such as Shane may be
able to do compared to a company which has several highly skilled
programmers working on the product. I have not seen Shane's software
either on the open market nor discussed on the Blind-Programming
e-list where many blind programmers float around from time to
time. That would seem to be the place he would look for beta
testors. Do not give Shane any real support until you "see the
goods". His claims seem to me to be massively over optimistic if not
just plain false. Ya, I would love a very compact, fast, clean and
cheap screen reader but that puppy does not exist and won't until
there are government industry standards concerning accessibility technicals.
Those of you who have slammed each other are fools because you are
fighyting for something that you have no clue about. You are just
fighting to hear yourself fight and, perhaps, that is what Shane is
all about in the first place?I will not comment further on this
thread until I see Shane's work or read reviews by respected blind
individuals who use it.
I have known people in my life who liked to play a mind game called
"let's you and him fight".I am not saying Shane is about that but he
has given us nothing but noise so far which makes me wonder
why. Also, to say that the Owners, Managers and nerds in the WE
Programming group would steal his code is ridiculus.
I am pretty sure Aaron, Doug and the others at GW Micro are
Programmers, perhaps even Software
Engineers, with many, many years of Programming experience and would
not need Shane's code to accomplish any accessibility technical implementation.
There is no magic to writing computer code. It is all the same for
all of us. You just figure out what you want to do and use the
available tools to do the job. Education and Experience will dictate
the tools used to solve a problem and GW seems to be trying to use
the correct, all be it complex, tools for the job they are attempting to do.
So, do not be a fool and fight with each other without having the
"goods in hand" to fight over.
Rick USA
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Belle" <[email protected]>
To: "shane findley" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 5:07 AM
Subject: Re: GW Micro Responds to the Future of Screen Readers
Discussion Panel Questions
Shane,
Never mind the small minds on here that can't comprehend that
anybody but official microsoft programmers, or the in house
screen-reader programmer company are the only ones who can do anything.
They don't understand how programming works, you know, I'm somewhat
of a developer myself,
I teach, and train, and run my own studio, and when I posted a
small very useful script for sale on here a few months back, I got
lots of negativity.
but never be discouraged, because folks approached me privately,
and I got sales and happy customers out of it.
There are good professional people here, but many of the sheltered
blindies who just like to run their mouths, and create bad feeling,
because they don't do anything productive themselves, don't have a
job, career, or anything that's meaningful in their lives, so they
just tear down other people's work.
I don't know about the Karen chick, but I know Robert generally
loves to be a ful time asshole,
he hasn't stirred the pot lately,
but anyway, just consider the people who've responded to you.
If your the real deal, and have written some useful apps, then I
congratulate you, and thanks for letting us know,
and you guys who haven't even looked at his work, and don't know a
hard drive from a hand job, shut the fuck up.
At least someone is stepping up to the plate and trying to do
something for us, never mind if they speak the king's english like
you think they should.
YOu guys don't deserve any better.
Now if you go check his files out, and they don't work, or are full
of viruses, then by all means, say something, otherwise, your just
showing; your ass.
Yes, I'm showing mine right now too, but you know what?
I hate stupidity, and short sightedness and ignorance displayed like this.
Just talking about someone because he posted some utilities, and
told you about his work.
And maybe some of it might work better than some things window-eyes
does, what's the crime in that?
You guys get a clue, and get a life, go do something useful.
At 09:52 PM 9/1/2010, shane findley wrote:
I have written an on screen keyboard that is much better than
microsofts third party on screen keyboard for Windows 7. I
released before they did.
My article is here, and should change some of your minds about my
credability.
<http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/keyboard/article.php/c16501/>http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/keyboard/article.php/c16501/
Also I wrote a sendkeys module, that won the codeguru award in 2008.
<http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/keyboard/article.php/c14629__1/>http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/keyboard/article.php/c14629__1/
And I re-wrote the UAC(User account control) to be safer, and much
less annoying to use.
<http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/win32/article.php/c16565/>http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/win32/article.php/c16565/
Anyhow, I understand the loyalty of window eyes users, its okay to
bash me until you know who I am, and what I've got.
The demo is mostly for developer collaboration, and is in the
final stages where it can be tested by others. That's why I tried
to contact GW, but was ignored. They are busy, and probably
didn't believe me. I understand, they are big boys now.
It has not been officially released for sale yet. The setup is
incomplete without audio, but that will be different later
ofcourse. Voiceware Kate, and Paul are not included but work
great with the software on Vista/7 too!
I wanted to get final feedback from blind users, and over the next
couple months perfect and polish the software. I can close my
eyes too, and I have many times during testing, and developing,
but I am well aware that there are biases, which I may have
overlooked. Not many, but I'm not oblivious either.
Are you sighted, or totally blind?
Are you using xp, Vista or Windows 7?
Do you have .NET 2.0 or higher installed?
The demo is best with xp right now, since I lost some details in
Vista/7 after the last filter update. I will get those tricky
controls back. Vista and 7 were quirky along the way, but things
have stabalized recently. I spent most time this summer working
on the foundation, which was the most important, and I will finish
the application for Vista/7 soon(within a few weeks), so the
experience is professional and without bugs on all systems.
You will find that almost all standard windows will have FULL
access, within quick reach.
And a customizable filter ofcourse.
For example taskbar objects, all task manager controls, all
explorer controls, all notepad controls etc. If you press shift
while refreshing you get additional client windows in the
scrollable list. Those were uncommon, but still an accessible
point, usually a button.
I also hybrided HotSpots into the mix, so that common points can
be included in the scrollable list. Over a short period of time
most web windows will be mostly accessible, by
writing very general rules, and specific rules to filter uneeded,
or needed window controls and their objects.
Quick instructions, you move the mouse into a category, left to
right. Locked in statically, so that the mouse does not move, but
the category changes with voice feedback.
Then you scroll to move the mouse over any and all
controls. Controls are items on a form, so scroll them, as if
they were text items! Its genius in it's simplisity, but I can
see why it's hard to pull off, or yet never done.
The categories are in this order:
Main Window, Control Under Mouse, and Selected Item.
The main window category can also move the mouse down to the
taskbar, or up towards the desktop. At any time to get more
information about the control under the mouse, right click and
hold for one second, to read the description of that control.
I will change the demo to 30 minutes, and I will do a final proof
read before uploading the 30 minute demo. No need for rebooting
though, you may start the app again under the license terms.
Please allow me to post the demo in the morning, when I complete
another proof read.
I use mediafire to host files, or directly though email since the
file size is digestable.
If anyone has objections to mediafire, then where can I upload the
demo that you trust?
You should always scan files, but it's not wise to use any old
freeware for this purpose.
At least not the ones that popup on a webpage, those are viruses
usually with the mask on to help you, or promote sister companies
by filtering an app as a virus.
Thanks
If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original
sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and
your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending
your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it.
GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo.
You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
WARNING!!!
This email could contain innocent phrases which, if taken out of
context, or read from an existing inclination to be hostile, or an
overly politically correct world view could induce cursing, abusive
language, or other indications of less than desirable behavior in a
public venue.
No ill will is intended.
The sender takes no responsibility for mis-interpretation or
otherwise extrapolated extended meaning, intent, or purposes
implied or imagined from said phrases.
The receiver of any such email containing such phrases is solely
responsible for good
interpretation and intelligent deployment of subsequent responses
to the above communication.
If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original
sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and
your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending
your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it.
GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You
can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Belle" <[email protected]>
To: "shane findley" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 5:07 AM
Subject: Re: GW Micro Responds to the Future of Screen Readers
Discussion Panel Questions
Shane,
Never mind the small minds on here that can't comprehend that
anybody but official microsoft programmers, or the in house
screen-reader programmer company are the only ones who can do anything.
They don't understand how programming works, you know, I'm somewhat
of a developer myself,
I teach, and train, and run my own studio, and when I posted a
small very useful script for sale on here a few months back, I got
lots of negativity.
but never be discouraged, because folks approached me privately,
and I got sales and happy customers out of it.
There are good professional people here, but many of the sheltered
blindies who just like to run their mouths, and create bad feeling,
because they don't do anything productive themselves, don't have a
job, career, or anything that's meaningful in their lives, so they
just tear down other people's work.
I don't know about the Karen chick, but I know Robert generally
loves to be a ful time asshole,
he hasn't stirred the pot lately,
but anyway, just consider the people who've responded to you.
If your the real deal, and have written some useful apps, then I
congratulate you, and thanks for letting us know,
and you guys who haven't even looked at his work, and don't know a
hard drive from a hand job, shut the fuck up.
At least someone is stepping up to the plate and trying to do
something for us, never mind if they speak the king's english like
you think they should.
YOu guys don't deserve any better.
Now if you go check his files out, and they don't work, or are full
of viruses, then by all means, say something, otherwise, your just
showing; your ass.
Yes, I'm showing mine right now too, but you know what?
I hate stupidity, and short sightedness and ignorance displayed like this.
Just talking about someone because he posted some utilities, and
told you about his work.
And maybe some of it might work better than some things window-eyes
does, what's the crime in that?
You guys get a clue, and get a life, go do something useful.
At 09:52 PM 9/1/2010, shane findley wrote:
I have written an on screen keyboard that is much better than
microsofts third party on screen keyboard for Windows 7. I
released before they did.
My article is here, and should change some of your minds about my
credability.
<http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/keyboard/article.php/c16501/>http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/keyboard/article.php/c16501/
Also I wrote a sendkeys module, that won the codeguru award in 2008.
<http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/keyboard/article.php/c14629__1/>http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/keyboard/article.php/c14629__1/
And I re-wrote the UAC(User account control) to be safer, and much
less annoying to use.
<http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/win32/article.php/c16565/>http://www.codeguru.com/vb/gen/vb_system/win32/article.php/c16565/
Anyhow, I understand the loyalty of window eyes users, its okay to
bash me until you know who I am, and what I've got.
The demo is mostly for developer collaboration, and is in the
final stages where it can be tested by others. That's why I tried
to contact GW, but was ignored. They are busy, and probably
didn't believe me. I understand, they are big boys now.
It has not been officially released for sale yet. The setup is
incomplete without audio, but that will be different later
ofcourse. Voiceware Kate, and Paul are not included but work
great with the software on Vista/7 too!
I wanted to get final feedback from blind users, and over the next
couple months perfect and polish the software. I can close my
eyes too, and I have many times during testing, and developing,
but I am well aware that there are biases, which I may have
overlooked. Not many, but I'm not oblivious either.
Are you sighted, or totally blind?
Are you using xp, Vista or Windows 7?
Do you have .NET 2.0 or higher installed?
The demo is best with xp right now, since I lost some details in
Vista/7 after the last filter update. I will get those tricky
controls back. Vista and 7 were quirky along the way, but things
have stabalized recently. I spent most time this summer working
on the foundation, which was the most important, and I will finish
the application for Vista/7 soon(within a few weeks), so the
experience is professional and without bugs on all systems.
You will find that almost all standard windows will have FULL
access, within quick reach.
And a customizable filter ofcourse.
For example taskbar objects, all task manager controls, all
explorer controls, all notepad controls etc. If you press shift
while refreshing you get additional client windows in the
scrollable list. Those were uncommon, but still an accessible
point, usually a button.
I also hybrided HotSpots into the mix, so that common points can
be included in the scrollable list. Over a short period of time
most web windows will be mostly accessible, by
writing very general rules, and specific rules to filter uneeded,
or needed window controls and their objects.
Quick instructions, you move the mouse into a category, left to
right. Locked in statically, so that the mouse does not move, but
the category changes with voice feedback.
Then you scroll to move the mouse over any and all
controls. Controls are items on a form, so scroll them, as if
they were text items! Its genius in it's simplisity, but I can
see why it's hard to pull off, or yet never done.
The categories are in this order:
Main Window, Control Under Mouse, and Selected Item.
The main window category can also move the mouse down to the
taskbar, or up towards the desktop. At any time to get more
information about the control under the mouse, right click and
hold for one second, to read the description of that control.
I will change the demo to 30 minutes, and I will do a final proof
read before uploading the 30 minute demo. No need for rebooting
though, you may start the app again under the license terms.
Please allow me to post the demo in the morning, when I complete
another proof read.
I use mediafire to host files, or directly though email since the
file size is digestable.
If anyone has objections to mediafire, then where can I upload the
demo that you trust?
You should always scan files, but it's not wise to use any old
freeware for this purpose.
At least not the ones that popup on a webpage, those are viruses
usually with the mask on to help you, or promote sister companies
by filtering an app as a virus.
Thanks
If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original
sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and
your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending
your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it.
GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo.
You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
WARNING!!!
This email could contain innocent phrases which, if taken out of
context, or read from an existing inclination to be hostile, or an
overly politically correct world view could induce cursing, abusive
language, or other indications of less than desirable behavior in a
public venue.
No ill will is intended.
The sender takes no responsibility for mis-interpretation or
otherwise extrapolated extended meaning, intent, or purposes
implied or imagined from said phrases.
The receiver of any such email containing such phrases is solely
responsible for good
interpretation and intelligent deployment of subsequent responses
to the above communication.
If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original
sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and
your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending
your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it.
GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You
can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original
sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your
message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your
message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it.
GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You
can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
WARNING!!!
This email could contain innocent phrases which, if taken out of
context, or read from an existing inclination to be hostile, or an
overly politically correct world view could induce cursing, abusive
language, or other indications of less than desirable behavior in a
public venue.
No ill will is intended.
The sender takes no responsibility for mis-interpretation or
otherwise extrapolated extended meaning, intent, or purposes implied
or imagined from said phrases.
The receiver of any such email containing such phrases is solely
responsible for good
interpretation and intelligent deployment of subsequent responses to
the above communication.
If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only.
If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to
GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so
the entire list will receive it.
GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage
your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
