If you have a new product, that might even set a new standard in screen reading technology, I am sure a lot of the users on this list will welcome that. Yet, to attack your competitors, is never a good ice breaker. And, just in this token, how often do we see people on the list, 'backing up' their statement with a down-rush on Jaws or other screen readers. I find this attitude rather anoying. There is never gonna be such a thing as a perfect solution. Simply because, there is too many users, with too many different soft- and hardware setups, and way too many needs to be cared for fully. If you feel a given software works fine, go ahead and let the community know, but don't rush on the alternatives, or those who want to benefit from the functionality of the competitors.
And, giving a ton of meaningless attacks on GW, without even letting people get their hand on your software? Hmm! What do you think you will get from that? Everyone could pop in here, claiming they had solved all the disasters of the blind world. That only takes the time of writing the message. And, everyone could have someone put out an article or three on the net, that tells how WONDERFUL a software this is. Well, it doesn't back up anything, long as it is mere words. So far, I didn't even see you tell us step-by-step how to really work your software, and compare that to how it is handled in Window-Eyes. If anyone should bother looking at your software, such a 'real' comparison, I guess, would make more sense - far more sense - than simply kick, slap, and jump on an already well-established technology. Be as it will, your software might be great. And, if it really prove itself to increase accessibility, nothing would be better. But then, a meek attitude, would bring you far deeper into the community. You know, if people should embrace your software, they'd have to see given benefits. Benefits in real life, not just claimed benefits. The way you announced your stuff, reminds me of the way certain sellers on places like EBay do. They spend one or two lines on telling real facts, then one or two pages on blowing all alternative solutions - backing it all up with a hundred and fifty 'testimonials', that are all so overwhelming, you start wondering, if they have been manufactured by a close friend! I am not syying, that is the case with you. Far from it. I am only stating, that your approach is totally out of line. Come back, be humble, let us know about your product, its features, benefits, advantages, and whatever you need our feedback on - and let us have a real chance to put our hands on it. Then, see how many 'testers' you will get, and make your ears open for the feedback. By the time, you REALLY have a solution, that works, and outrides screen reader technology known so far, you might let the community know. Well, OK, you say you can close your eyes? Oh, sure you can. Did you know, even blind people have that ability; funny as it might sound. :) Well, what I am trying to point out, is that merely closing your eyes, won't do the trick. Before you closed your eyes, you already had an idea of what your screen looked like. How else, would you have been able to know, how to build your software, and what to have it performing. It is, REALLY is, a different story for the blind person. He sits down in front of his computer, brings up a screen; and have no idea - absolutely NO idea - what it looks like. From here, he is to fully rely on your software to navigate, operate, and interact with the computer. That is different from first seeing the screen, then closing your eyes, and move the mouse where you know you are supposed to. And, furthermore, in the case you happen to get stuck... ??? What then are you doing? Opening your eyes, and helping yourself out of the trouble? Or, have you got stuck and really refused to open your eyes the next three hours, trying to figure how in the world to get around the problem? See! That is the real life of a blind person. Would you have been buying my car, if I told you, it is superior over all other cars. This one, you see, will never crash with other cars, simply because it has sensors, that keep the right distance at any time. You, ofcourse, would have asked me 'how do you know?' My answer? 'I have walked up and down the street three times, checking which cars are parked there, and droven my new product through the street...' You can download my brand new car from XYZ-ABC.go Many years ago, a student came into my office. He was really inthusiastic. He was - as part of his engineers study - 'inventing' a new product for the blind computer user. Well, in short, it was a mouse, with some Braille cells attached. The idea was, for the blind to move the mouse around, and the Braille cells would show what was under the mouse. I had the product for testing a couple of weeks, even letting some of my students try it out. The results? Well, how many of you, out there, have been playing with the product? I take it, that unless one of my students from the late 80s would just happen to be on the list, NOONE of the list members ever seen such a thing. Why? OK; several reasons. But let me tell you one of the most obvious, and sensemaking: The mouse is not, and have never been meant to be a real INPUT equipment. It was designed, and still is, a pointing device. For it to work fully, you will need a cooperation between your hand, and your eyes. You see your pointer on the screen, you see where you want it to land, you move your hand, you make sure your hand is moving the right distance and direction, your eyes confirm it lands where you need it, and finally, you let your finger click the button. Did you notice, how many times through this process your eyes, or sight, was included? For the blind person - and believe me, I am talking out of real-life experience - to move a mouse (or, go ahead and name it any other pointing device) around a square mat, that often is only a fraction the size of your physical screen, is totally senseless. All the graphics, icons, fields and whatever that screen is powdered with; well, unless you see the screen layout, it doesn't make much sense. Does your software, for instance, indicate to the user, if he is close to - or even exceeding - the edge of the physical (or software) screen? Well, why I ask, is that some years ago, I tried 'writing' my name, with the mouse. The computer swas meant to recognize my handwriting. I started out, imagineing the mouse being a pen. Pretty soon, though, it showed up, I was not following the 'line' on the screen. And, when I was almost done, I had exceeded the edge of the screen, and the computer refused to recognize anything. Thing is, I was still within the limit of the physical mousepad. To test this, try doing the following: Use your mouse, and move the pointer to about one inch from the right edge of your screen. Then lift up your physical mouse, and place it at the far left of your physical mousepad. Then move it to the right. At least, when you reach the middle of your mousepad, where has your pointer on the screen gone? Way out in the blue, I guess! Oh, you will say, noone should lift their mouse. And, truly, agreed. Usually, you won't lift you mouse. But, try do the same project over again. Only this time, instead of lifting your mouse and placing it to the left on your pad, open a new window. Your pointer now, won't be at the edge, or close to it. It might land at the middle of the screen. How will the blind person know? Oh yes, I hear you, your software will tell what is under the mouse. Hmm! Well! Then I know what is under my mouse. But my physical device still sits at the right side of my pad. Should I move it up, down, left or right, so as to reach the destination I want? Fooling around with that plastic thing, they call a mouse, is little sensemaking for a blind person; and in most cases leaves him totally lost. Unless, your software has taken into account such scenarios, I am afraid it has still a good deal of BetaTesting to go. And, believe me, this is not for a sighted person to test. Here you will need real professionals: The blind people themself. But you won't get them, by kicking, slapping and screaming at them. Or, at their established well-working screen readers. Again, we welcome you back, when you have the right attitude, and really are looking genuinely for test-persons. And, as already pointed out, if you really have made a leap forward in screen reading technology, we will embrace that. Nothing would be greater, than if someone could increase my daily functionality, by means of new and better working software. And, if you have solved my challenges in doing my shopping on EBay, logging in, and operating my online banking, working with music software like Sonar, making it possible to reach destinations on the screen where Window-Eyes doesn't let me; well, if you really can prove me able to do all of this... And that for a lower price? Well, if you really, really, really can.. But, then, don't knock the head off any alternatives. YOUR product, WINDOW-EYES, JAWS, NVDA, SYSTEM ACCESS TO GO - they will NEVER, and let me repeat myself: NEVER out-perform each other. They will, however, most likely fill-in each other, and if we could afford to have them all on our system, would benefit us all. Finally: You tell GW not to reverse engineering your stuff? Why? Is that the impression you have of GW? Wouldn't it - in case you really had solved the challenges of the blind community - have been a far better approach, to invite staff members from places like GW to incooperate your solutions? Or, at least, let them see for themselves what a great product you have given birth to. Then, maybe the staff even would have got in touch, and wanted to cooperate; and you all toghether would have been helping the blind community. To knock each others head, never will benefit any of the blind people. That will only take up a ton of resources. Resources that could have been spent far better in cooperating, and brought technology three steps further. Welcome bakc, when your attitude and product is ready for testing! ----- Original Message ----- From: shane findley To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 2:58 AM Subject: Re: GW Micro Responds to the Future of Screen Readers Discussion Panel Questions You can't use the mouse really. What read text under it, as you aimlessly wonder around? No. The HotSpot script is almost on the right page. At least on the trail toward the path. Free mousing, is not a solution for totally blind, and I have fixed that problem for you all. I do have the "read text under mouse" option as well, which is slightly better than WE, for partially blind. Window Eyes can't get to all the objects on the foreground within a few seconds like a sighted user either. Soon you will know this is easily possible. When I say mouse, I mean mouse as the primary means of input to do mouse things, like change foreground focus, move mouse quickly over a control, and click it, or its items. If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
