And somebody built it and sold it on eBay?
Colin Hill
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Redpath
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: [HG] Alden's rant on iconography, and a challenge
In Britain and France a great deal of the "Church" carvings I have
seen have been fairly old. All the instruments appear to be very
stylised, I suspect that the "Chinese whispers effect" had a lot
to do with how all these different instruments appear. A Clarsach
player saw a piper playing a new bagpipe ( which was really a
Shawm), who told a sac but player about it ,who passed the
information on to a priest, who new someone was in town that could
draw. The tramp drew the picture, in exchange for a drink, and
gave it to the priest. The priest then went along to where his new
abbey was being built and gave the drawing to the stone mason and
told him to incorporate it in the church. The mason then gave the
drawing to the apprentice, who turned the drawing upside down!
This is not total fiction, a very famous chapel near where I live
was added to like this over the many years of construction. See
http://www.rosslynchapel.org.uk/
In my eyes, and they are pretty old, Alden is right JON
Jocelyn Demuth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
While Alden's question to draw a guitar is an interesting, I
don't think it's an apt comparison. While very few of us on this
list are graphic artists, the guy who did this little miniature
was. It looks like a 14th century miniature done with a fair
amount of lapiz, a very expensive paint. No patron would have
given a hack this expensive material to work with. I suppose if
you asked a bunch of American graphic artists to draw a stradlater
and they came up with something looking more like a cello, that
would prove the point admirably.
In my experience, which I think is the opposite of Alden's -
most people completely discount iconography. I would not suggest
that iconography is completely trustworthy just that rather than
dismiss it because it isn't well drawn, you have to look at many
pictures to see what was drawn. I think what is depicted is
probably more accurate than how well it was depicted anyway.
In my medieval house experiment, I built windows with shutters.
I noticed in the pictures that the shutters were full of these
strange, off center hinges and nothing seemed to be straight. We
didn't think much about this since perpective is always
problematic in medieval pictures. My husband tried to build
shutters that opened and closed in a more modern arc. It was
impossible. First of all since all the windows were small and in
a small structure, to get them to open, we had to add many hinges
so that the window could open fully without banging into a corner
or a shelf. One shutter had more hinges than the other which made
them hang slightly crookedly. When we were done, we had
something that without trying looked very much like many of the
medieval pictures we had assumed were badly drawn.
Well, that's it for me - - happy gurdy hunting. I guess the
good news is that the guy in the picture is actually playing it
rather than tuning and recottoning so I guess the instrument made
music, which is good.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Redpath
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [HG] Alden's rant on iconography, and a challenge
Colin, its a sort of Scottish Smallpipe made for Americans, with
lots of knobs and switches so you can change key quickly. JON
Colin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Stratocaster, is that the two door or four door model?
Heard of it, wouldn't know one if I walked into it, let alone
sketch one.
Colin Hill
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 1:29 AM
Subject: [HG] Alden's rant on iconography, and a challenge
>
> OK, you asked for it. ;-)
>
> Arle pretty much made my points for me already, so I'll just say
this:
>
> In scholarly circles there is, perhaps, a dedication to the
iconography
> that
> is unwarranted. The scholars go on and on about how the
instrument shown
> in
> this source has this feature while this one doesn't showing that
[insert
> your
> conclusion here]. This is all very well, but any time a
conclusion is
> reached
> by serious study of the available drawings, paintings,
engravings and
> sculptures, there should be a big disclaimer attached that the
details of
> the
> source materials are suspect. We treat the iconography as if it's a
> photograph, because we're used to that level of truth in our world.
>
> So here's the challenge.
>
> Take out a pencil and blank paper. Draw a Fender Stratocaster
electric
> guitar
> from memory.
>
> This is probably the most common instrument in the modern age,
and even if
> you
> have absolutely no interest in rock music, you have probably
seen the
> instrument literally hundreds of times. Don't worry if you
"can't draw",
> and
> don't worry about showing perspective, or showing the player
(though you
> can
> if you want to). Please DON'T cheat and look up Stratocaster
images on
> the
> web to work from - just work from memory, because that's the
point of the
> experiment. Scan your drawing and email me the scan, or send it
to me via
> snailmail. I'll post them all anonymously over the next week or so.
>
> I was going to write what I expect to see, but I think I'll wait
until the
> experiment is over. Since I'm asking you all to do this, I'll
post a
> drawing
> also. Remember, to make this experiment work, I need YOUR
drawing. No
> one
> will laugh at it, I promise.
>
> Alden
>
>
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