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As far as I've heard, HL2 isn't going to get updated to a new engine. HL2DM
maybe, CSS very likely, but vanilla HL2 probably not. It would mean
rebuilding a lot of assets since the newer versions of the engine break
displacements among other things maps compiled with he old tools. I think
you can see what I'm getting about having 3 versions of things.
Regards,
Paul
On Nov 16, 2007 9:15 AM, Tony omega Sergi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't have an old version of the engine to test with even if I
> compiled them. I suppose if you run something off of the HL2 app-id,
> sometime now before it gets updated to orange box.. with the new
> achievements and whatnot..
>
> Hence why source sdk base exists.
>
> On Nov 16, 2007 9:01 AM, Paul Peloski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > --
> > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> > Well, I know about HL2_EPISODIC but I'm unsure whether not defining it
> will
> > actually build the vanilla HL2 DLLs. If you can confirm that is the
> case,
> > and that there's no funny business using the EP1 tools on the old HL2
> > engine, then I guess that answers the OPs question.
> >
> > I think the larger issue is just a problem with Steam, like you said -
> it
> > would be nice to be able to keep older versions or revert to them. Not
> for
> > Valve's multiplayer games, but for example if Stalker (SP) patches were
> > being delivered via Steam I'd be awfully upset if that one that
> invalidates
> > your savegames was pushed on me without consent.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> > On Nov 16, 2007 8:36 AM, Tony omega Sergi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > You can still create a mod for "vanilla" hl2 with the ep1 sdk.
> > > just remove the HL2_EPISODIC define from the pre-proc definitions.
> > > But your argument is moot, because it was exactly the same with hl1.
> > > You either upgraded your source when a new version of the engine came
> > > out, or you were left in the cold and had to support old versions.
> > > The same thing has happened with quake3 too. new version comes out
> > > that has new netcode or whatever (ie: when quake 3 got the zlib based
> > > network compression) everyone had to update their mods, and it broke
> > > all previous mods.
> > > HL1 had the same type of thing -- going from SDK 1.0 to SDK 2.0.
> > > Granted, there was no steam at that point, and there was no automatic
> > > updates, but at least you're told months in advance, right?
> > >
> > > I dunno, in my opinion if you don't want to upgrade thats your own
> > > problem.
> > > Only time I wouldn't upgrade is if it's one of my mods that noone
> > > including myself cares about.
> > >
> > > Mike also said that the ep1 based sdk base will be staying
> > > indefinitely and that there will be two.
> > > If it was going to be replaced entirely do you REALLY think he would
> > > be spending all this headache inducing time working to make both sets
> > > of tools work concurrently? If you answer "yes" to that question
> > > you're pretty daft.
> > >
> > > -Tony
> > >
> > >
> > > On Nov 16, 2007 7:53 AM, Paul Peloski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > --
> > > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> > > > Well, I disagree with your analogy. The point is that there are
> still
> > > tools
> > > > to make mods for HL1 and there's nothing for HL2. People are still
> > > modding
> > > > Quake2 and Quake3. But HL2, because of this incremental/episodic
> release
> > > > system, is left without any mod tools and there are people who have
> > > started
> > > > and still want to start mods for vanilla HL2. Modding your favorite
> > > ("old")
> > > > game isn't out of style. After all, HL2 was released exactly three
> years
> > > ago
> > > > today (Nov 16).
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Paul
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 16, 2007 7:34 AM, Ondřej Hošek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I agree that you should be able to compile, run and create content
> for
> > > > > existing mods for old engines, but NEVER to create new ones (which
> is
> > > > > what Christoph seemed to be trying to do, but it was probably a
> > > > > misconception). Creating a mod for HL2 at this timepoint would be
> like
> > > > > writing a Windows 3.1 16-bit program to run on the newest builds
> of
> > > > > Vista. (Tip: no 16b emulation on 64b systems!)
> > > > >
> > > > > We can try to ask Valve to keep the EP1 Source SDK Base for an
> > > > > indefinite amount of time (not sure how long they are planning to
> keep
> > > > > it now).
> > > > >
> > > > > I hope Black Mesa will still be released in this century. Good
> luck.
> > > > >
> > > > > ~~ Ondra
> > > > >
> > > > > On 16.11.07 12:58 Uhr, Paul Peloski wrote:
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> > > > > > He brings up a good point though, can you mod for HL2 anymore?
> > > Shouldn't
> > > > > the
> > > > > > tools come in 3 versions? There are tools and source code for
> HL2,
> > > EP1,
> > > > > EP2
> > > > > > (almost). Why not have the option to access them all. Forcing
> mod
> > > makers
> > > > > to
> > > > > > upgrade their code and assets to work on the new engine doesn't
> make
> > > > > sense
> > > > > > for some large mods that are nearly finished.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For example with Black Mesa. I want to go with EP2 but by the
> time
> > > the
> > > > > > source code comes out, merging with the code we have will take a
> > > very
> > > > > long
> > > > > > time and definitely delay and release - because not only do we
> have
> > > to
> > > > > merge
> > > > > > but we also have to test everything again. So we're stuck on the
> EP1
> > > > > engine
> > > > > > unless we commit to a lot of work.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What if they shut off the EP1 SDK like they have the HL2 SDK?
> Does
> > > that
> > > > > mean
> > > > > > we either spend a lot of time merging or we can't work on the
> mod?
> > > Not a
> > > > > > good solution IMO.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Paul
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Nov 16, 2007 4:58 AM, Ondřej Hošek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Source is an engine. Engines come in builds.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The three builds currently (and historically) in use by modders
> > > are,
> > > > > >> IIRC, the one used in HL2, the one used in EP1, and the one
> used in
> > > the
> > > > > >> Orange Box.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> At the moment, you can only make mods for EP1, which then run
> off
> > > the
> > > > > >> Source SDK Base. (This removes the requirement of people having
> to
> > > have
> > > > > >> EP1 to run your mod; I hear there will be a Source SDK Base for
> the
> > > > > >> Orange Box engine too.) Soon(ish), the sources for the OB
> engine
> > > will
> > > > > be
> > > > > >> released too.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I advise you not to delve too far in mod making with the EP1
> > > engine.
> > > > > You
> > > > > >> can experiment, but you should probably create your first
> concise
> > > mod
> > > > > >> with the EP2 engine, simply because a) it's being released
> soon, b)
> > > > > it's
> > > > > >> going to be supported longer and c) it has more features.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The reason you had to add that switch was so that the SDK tool
> > > doesn't
> > > > > >> try to extract the (currently non-existent) EP2 engine sources.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Hope this clears things up.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> ~~ Ondra
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On 16.11.07 7:37 Uhr, Neuwirth Christoph wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> I just wanna create a source mod. Not ep1 or ep2 just a
> regular
> > > source
> > > > > >>> mod.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Adding the engine parameter made it working.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Thx for the help
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Christopher Harris schrieb:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> Oh I thought he just wanted to make a mod, not an ep2 one.
> > > > > >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >>>> From: "Jeffrey "botman" Broome" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > >>>> To: <[email protected]>
> > > > > >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:54 PM
> > > > > >>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Cant create source mod
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Christopher Harris wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> It doesn't matter, you don't need ep1 to use the source
> sdk.
> > > You
> > > > > just
> > > > > >>>>>> need a
> > > > > >>>>>> game that comes with it according to the steam store.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> But you DO need EP2 SDK source code if you are going to
> create a
> > > mod
> > > > > >>>>> for
> > > > > >>>>> an EP2 based game. No source code for EP2 has been released
> > > yet.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> You can use the SDK (level editor, tools), but you can't
> create
> > > a
> > > > > mod.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> --
> > > > > >>>>> Jeffrey "botman" Broome
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> archives,
> > > > > please visit:
> > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> archives,
> > > please visit:
> > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > -omega
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> > > please visit:
> > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> > >
> > >
> > --
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> -omega
> _______________________________________________
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
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>
>
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