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Well, I know about HL2_EPISODIC but I'm unsure whether not defining it will
actually build the vanilla HL2 DLLs. If you can confirm that is the case,
and that there's no funny business using the EP1 tools on the old HL2
engine, then I guess that answers the OPs question.
I think the larger issue is just a problem with Steam, like you said - it
would be nice to be able to keep older versions or revert to them. Not for
Valve's multiplayer games, but for example if Stalker (SP) patches were
being delivered via Steam I'd be awfully upset if that one that invalidates
your savegames was pushed on me without consent.
Regards,
Paul
On Nov 16, 2007 8:36 AM, Tony omega Sergi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You can still create a mod for "vanilla" hl2 with the ep1 sdk.
> just remove the HL2_EPISODIC define from the pre-proc definitions.
> But your argument is moot, because it was exactly the same with hl1.
> You either upgraded your source when a new version of the engine came
> out, or you were left in the cold and had to support old versions.
> The same thing has happened with quake3 too. new version comes out
> that has new netcode or whatever (ie: when quake 3 got the zlib based
> network compression) everyone had to update their mods, and it broke
> all previous mods.
> HL1 had the same type of thing -- going from SDK 1.0 to SDK 2.0.
> Granted, there was no steam at that point, and there was no automatic
> updates, but at least you're told months in advance, right?
>
> I dunno, in my opinion if you don't want to upgrade thats your own
> problem.
> Only time I wouldn't upgrade is if it's one of my mods that noone
> including myself cares about.
>
> Mike also said that the ep1 based sdk base will be staying
> indefinitely and that there will be two.
> If it was going to be replaced entirely do you REALLY think he would
> be spending all this headache inducing time working to make both sets
> of tools work concurrently? If you answer "yes" to that question
> you're pretty daft.
>
> -Tony
>
>
> On Nov 16, 2007 7:53 AM, Paul Peloski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > --
> > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> > Well, I disagree with your analogy. The point is that there are still
> tools
> > to make mods for HL1 and there's nothing for HL2. People are still
> modding
> > Quake2 and Quake3. But HL2, because of this incremental/episodic release
> > system, is left without any mod tools and there are people who have
> started
> > and still want to start mods for vanilla HL2. Modding your favorite
> ("old")
> > game isn't out of style. After all, HL2 was released exactly three years
> ago
> > today (Nov 16).
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >
> > On Nov 16, 2007 7:34 AM, Ondřej Hošek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > I agree that you should be able to compile, run and create content for
> > > existing mods for old engines, but NEVER to create new ones (which is
> > > what Christoph seemed to be trying to do, but it was probably a
> > > misconception). Creating a mod for HL2 at this timepoint would be like
> > > writing a Windows 3.1 16-bit program to run on the newest builds of
> > > Vista. (Tip: no 16b emulation on 64b systems!)
> > >
> > > We can try to ask Valve to keep the EP1 Source SDK Base for an
> > > indefinite amount of time (not sure how long they are planning to keep
> > > it now).
> > >
> > > I hope Black Mesa will still be released in this century. Good luck.
> > >
> > > ~~ Ondra
> > >
> > > On 16.11.07 12:58 Uhr, Paul Peloski wrote:
> > > > --
> > > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
> > > > He brings up a good point though, can you mod for HL2 anymore?
> Shouldn't
> > > the
> > > > tools come in 3 versions? There are tools and source code for HL2,
> EP1,
> > > EP2
> > > > (almost). Why not have the option to access them all. Forcing mod
> makers
> > > to
> > > > upgrade their code and assets to work on the new engine doesn't make
> > > sense
> > > > for some large mods that are nearly finished.
> > > >
> > > > For example with Black Mesa. I want to go with EP2 but by the time
> the
> > > > source code comes out, merging with the code we have will take a
> very
> > > long
> > > > time and definitely delay and release - because not only do we have
> to
> > > merge
> > > > but we also have to test everything again. So we're stuck on the EP1
> > > engine
> > > > unless we commit to a lot of work.
> > > >
> > > > What if they shut off the EP1 SDK like they have the HL2 SDK? Does
> that
> > > mean
> > > > we either spend a lot of time merging or we can't work on the mod?
> Not a
> > > > good solution IMO.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Paul
> > > >
> > > > On Nov 16, 2007 4:58 AM, Ondřej Hošek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Source is an engine. Engines come in builds.
> > > >>
> > > >> The three builds currently (and historically) in use by modders
> are,
> > > >> IIRC, the one used in HL2, the one used in EP1, and the one used in
> the
> > > >> Orange Box.
> > > >>
> > > >> At the moment, you can only make mods for EP1, which then run off
> the
> > > >> Source SDK Base. (This removes the requirement of people having to
> have
> > > >> EP1 to run your mod; I hear there will be a Source SDK Base for the
> > > >> Orange Box engine too.) Soon(ish), the sources for the OB engine
> will
> > > be
> > > >> released too.
> > > >>
> > > >> I advise you not to delve too far in mod making with the EP1
> engine.
> > > You
> > > >> can experiment, but you should probably create your first concise
> mod
> > > >> with the EP2 engine, simply because a) it's being released soon, b)
> > > it's
> > > >> going to be supported longer and c) it has more features.
> > > >>
> > > >> The reason you had to add that switch was so that the SDK tool
> doesn't
> > > >> try to extract the (currently non-existent) EP2 engine sources.
> > > >>
> > > >> Hope this clears things up.
> > > >>
> > > >> ~~ Ondra
> > > >>
> > > >> On 16.11.07 7:37 Uhr, Neuwirth Christoph wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> I just wanna create a source mod. Not ep1 or ep2 just a regular
> source
> > > >>> mod.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Adding the engine parameter made it working.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thx for the help
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Christopher Harris schrieb:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Oh I thought he just wanted to make a mod, not an ep2 one.
> > > >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >>>> From: "Jeffrey "botman" Broome" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >>>> To: <[email protected]>
> > > >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 4:54 PM
> > > >>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Cant create source mod
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Christopher Harris wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> It doesn't matter, you don't need ep1 to use the source sdk.
> You
> > > just
> > > >>>>>> need a
> > > >>>>>> game that comes with it according to the steam store.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>> But you DO need EP2 SDK source code if you are going to create a
> mod
> > > >>>>> for
> > > >>>>> an EP2 based game. No source code for EP2 has been released
> yet.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> You can use the SDK (level editor, tools), but you can't create
> a
> > > mod.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> --
> > > >>>>> Jeffrey "botman" Broome
> > > >>>>>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> > > please visit:
> > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> > >
> > >
> > --
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> -omega
> _______________________________________________
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