I dont see whats wrong with that warning, im allergic to peanuts, and you never know, i might pick up a bag of peanuts and not realise that peanuts have peanuts in them and when i check for the warning label, its not there!
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Not this bullshit again. > > The custom tab has to be scratched, all servers should be displayed by > default. Players should then be allowed to filter tags they like or do not > like. > > If a player learns to use tags, great. If they don't, they see all options. > This is what's important, if you by default HIDE 'custom' servers, the > majority of the players who don't care will never see the so called custom > servers. > > The whole tag system is flawed, let's say I run a 24 server without fast > respawn. No tags are added by valve without any kind of mods manipulating > the tags. > > But I add a grapple hook for all players. > > What server operator in their right mind would voluntarily add a tag that > results in their server effectively being delisted? > > NOBODY. > > And then what is valve going to do about that? Are they going to come tell > server ops "hey you HAVE to list tags". > > Is valve going to hire a bunch of people to look for servers to make sure > they aren't modded? Doubtful. > > In its current implementation server operators have an incentive to avoid > tags, if all servers are shown by default with their respective tags, > server > operators would have an incentive to SHOW their tags. It's basically saying > "hey! Look what we got!", but if players don't see this by default, it will > be worthless. > > How hard is it to understand this? > > Valve probably realized their mistake and might be correcting it. At least > I > hope so. The custom tab will be an eternal cat and mouse game between > server > operators and valve. Valve can very easily solve the problem and make > everyone happy just by having the servers all visible by default. > > Players who want custom, can find it. > Players who want vanilla, can find it. > Players who don't care or don't know what they want, or don't know how to > use the filters, have all options shown to them so they can make their mind > on the fly. > > If you go to a restaurant and the waiter gives you a menu, and without you > knowing, there is "two" different menus, but they give you the "standard" > menu, chances are, very few people will ever ask "hey what's on the other > menu" > > Also, increased_maxplayers is probably one of the stupidest tags ever. It's > like a bag of peanuts with the warning: "Warning: contains peanuts". Like > players can't tell it's a 32 player server without reading the tags. > > - voogru. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SakeFox > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:57 PM > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > Subject: Re: [hlds] valve, some feedback? > > Well just because you pay for your servers doesn't give you rights to do > whatever with there programs. Valve has been good about allowing people > to modify there games, but i can see there point in what they are doing. > They want people that are getting into the game to be able to play it as > it was created and not with modified settings. There not limiting anyone > from running there servers how they want. They are just looking at how > new people experience the game. Now the game was designed for 24players > in a server, so if you have a 32 person complaining about balancing > issues in a game, that information is kinda scewed because the game is > not played as intended. > > I really didn't want to create the bullshit from a few weeks ago either, > however i think it was a few months ago, but since no one else has been > calling Valve out on there short comings and completely ignoring issues > with there games I thought I might as well start somewhere. This really > wasn't intended to start the flame back up, but thought it to bring this > bit up of there idle threats first and get it out of the way since its > the most touchy of things. > > tgnwells wrote: > > I think the problem is valve set up the rules without thinking much > > about them, or more obviously, how the community would react to being > > forced to have to adapt to these changes when there's really no reason > to. > > > > And a lot of people pay good money for their hosted servers, I don't > > think Valve should be moderating the servers people put up and start > > punishing people for something that doesn't really matter either way, I > > especially hope they don't think they should as well. > > > > And to think this whole custom tags argument bullshit could be done with > > once and for all by adding an "All Servers" tab. > > > > chillicane wrote: > > > >> indeed you are correct, valve set us up the rules (sic) > >> > >> The problem we have in this country is all the major telco run server > >> opertions have instaspawn servers and none of them end up in the custom > tab, > >> wether they are running a plugin version of instaspawn or > >> disableresapwntimers 1. > >> > >> And the custom tab may have only 20 or so servers on it at any one time. > >> > >> hopefully i managed to avoid creating a flame war over this. Certainly > dont > >> want to create that bullshit we had here 2 weeks ago. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Jake E <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>> good idea > >>> > >>> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 7:24 PM, chillicane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> Apart from the fact that it took me a while to realise the custom tab > was > >>>> there when it was first implemented, my main issue with it is that it > is > >>>> STILL not in the out of game, steam server list. > >>>> > >>>> I think the tags should still be there, but instead of shunting the > >>>> > >>>> > >>> servers > >>> > >>> > >>>> off to the custom tab where no-one looks, allow them to be searchable > via > >>>> filters. If something like this was happening instead of the custom > tab > >>>> arrangment, we wouldnt be trying so hard to circumvent this in the > first > >>>> place. The fact is, if your on the custom tab, people dont come. > >>>> > >>>> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Blood Letter < > >>>> > >>>> > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> > >>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> The last thing Valve wants to do is get in a war with the mod writers > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> over > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> this. > >>>>> Every TF2 update will include a patch to the delisting code, and > every > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> mod > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> update will include a patch for that. > >>>>> > >>>>> I'm a server admin. I don't know what the tags are. I don't know > how > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> to > >>> > >>> > >>>>> use them. I don't care. > >>>>> I run a game server for people to have fun. My server run's Beetles > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> Mod > >>> > >>> > >>>>> for administration and reserved slots. > >>>>> I have custom maps, but not in my regular rotation. If the server is > >>>>> switched to one, you'll be able to download it lickity split from my > >>>>> redirect. > >>>>> I see no need for tags in my case. > >>>>> > >>>>> If you're running a 24/7 or party mode or omg supar low gravity or > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> whatever > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> server that can mess with people's stats, achievements, etc., just > list > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> it > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> in the damned server name. > >>>>> > >>>>> As for tags/stats/etc.... > >>>>> > >>>>> I'd be more than happy to see Valve do away with the custom tags > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> entirely > >>> > >>> > >>>>> and just give us more robust filter options, and the option to reset > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> our > >>> > >>> > >>>>> stats. > >>>>> Ideally, you'd be able to reset individual stats and achievements, > and > >>>>> track stats over all time, month, week, etc. Sure, that kind of stat > >>>>> tracking is more suited to a mod/plugin, but those would only catch > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> data > >>> > >>> > >>>>> from one server/group of servers, and you wouldn't see them when > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> loading. > >>> > >>> > >>>>> The way Valve handled stats seems to have been shortsighted. When > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> someone > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> first gets into TF2, they see their stats at each map load and can > see > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> their > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> progress, and it's interesting. It encourages you to try out other > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> classes > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> and do better. After a few weeks/months, you're basically staring at > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> the > >>> > >>> > >>>>> same bars. Stats don't age well. A lot of people complain about > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> custom > >>> > >>> > >>>>> servers avoiding the tags because they can ruin their stats. A lot > of > >>>>> people want to reset their stats because of this. I'm willing to be > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> there > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> are also a lot of people who would like to reset their stats just > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> because > >>> > >>> > >>>>> they'd like to get a picture of how they're doing now that they're > >>>>> experienced with the game. Stats would a lot more fun for me if I > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> could > >>> > >>> > >>>>> reset them (keeping my unlocks/achievements!) and play for a week or > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> two > >>> > >>> > >>>>> from a blank slate. > >>>>> > >>>>> If we can't reset our stats, let us reset our stat displays. Think > of > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> it > >>> > >>> > >>>>> as an odometer versus a trip odometer. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:31:02 -0400 > >>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>>> To: [email protected] > >>>>>> Subject: [hlds] valve, some feedback? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Most likely there will be a patch and make some of this more > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> worthless > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> then it already is, but since its been kinda quite the last few days > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> i > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> thought what the heck. No its not beating a long lost dead > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> horse...well > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> maybe a small poke. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> A while ago valve made mention about delisting servers that are > >>>>>> bypassing the custom tags. Now i am not wanting to start a huge > thing > >>>>>> again on if there should be tags or what not, but i am more > wondering > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> on > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> why valve gave out a kind of idle threat then does nothing with it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> You > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> look on the lists and there are a bunch of servers that are > bypassing > >>>>>> it. Is there going to be any actual enforcement here or something > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> else > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> you guys are just giving up on it? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I would like to hear some feedback from valve about some bug fixes > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> that > >>> > >>> > >>>>>> i had brought up in the list before. most that have been there since > >>>>>> long long ago that also seem to have been ignored. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Can we get some information on these things? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>> archives, > >>> > >>> > >>>>> please visit: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> _________________________________________________________________ > >>>>> Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> Messenger. > >>> > >>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL > _Refresh_messenger_video_072008<http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_072008> > >>> > >>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>>>> please visit: > >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> -------- > >>>> Chillidog Systems - Re-inventing the wheel for the sake of all > humanity! > >>>> -------- > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>>> please visit: > >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> -- > >>> I don't have a sig -_- > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > -- -------- Chillidog Systems - Re-inventing the wheel for the sake of all humanity! -------- _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
