Can we run 64 player dod:s servers yet? ;) On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Timothy L Havener < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Amen, brother. > > Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: > > Not this bullshit again. > > > > The custom tab has to be scratched, all servers should be displayed by > > default. Players should then be allowed to filter tags they like or do > not > > like. > > > > If a player learns to use tags, great. If they don't, they see all > options. > > This is what's important, if you by default HIDE 'custom' servers, the > > majority of the players who don't care will never see the so called > custom > > servers. > > > > The whole tag system is flawed, let's say I run a 24 server without fast > > respawn. No tags are added by valve without any kind of mods manipulating > > the tags. > > > > But I add a grapple hook for all players. > > > > What server operator in their right mind would voluntarily add a tag that > > results in their server effectively being delisted? > > > > NOBODY. > > > > And then what is valve going to do about that? Are they going to come > tell > > server ops "hey you HAVE to list tags". > > > > Is valve going to hire a bunch of people to look for servers to make sure > > they aren't modded? Doubtful. > > > > In its current implementation server operators have an incentive to avoid > > tags, if all servers are shown by default with their respective tags, > server > > operators would have an incentive to SHOW their tags. It's basically > saying > > "hey! Look what we got!", but if players don't see this by default, it > will > > be worthless. > > > > How hard is it to understand this? > > > > Valve probably realized their mistake and might be correcting it. At > least I > > hope so. The custom tab will be an eternal cat and mouse game between > server > > operators and valve. Valve can very easily solve the problem and make > > everyone happy just by having the servers all visible by default. > > > > Players who want custom, can find it. > > Players who want vanilla, can find it. > > Players who don't care or don't know what they want, or don't know how to > > use the filters, have all options shown to them so they can make their > mind > > on the fly. > > > > If you go to a restaurant and the waiter gives you a menu, and without > you > > knowing, there is "two" different menus, but they give you the "standard" > > menu, chances are, very few people will ever ask "hey what's on the other > > menu" > > > > Also, increased_maxplayers is probably one of the stupidest tags ever. > It's > > like a bag of peanuts with the warning: "Warning: contains peanuts". Like > > players can't tell it's a 32 player server without reading the tags. > > > > - voogru. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SakeFox > > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:57 PM > > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > > Subject: Re: [hlds] valve, some feedback? > > > > Well just because you pay for your servers doesn't give you rights to do > > whatever with there programs. Valve has been good about allowing people > > to modify there games, but i can see there point in what they are doing. > > They want people that are getting into the game to be able to play it as > > it was created and not with modified settings. There not limiting anyone > > from running there servers how they want. They are just looking at how > > new people experience the game. Now the game was designed for 24players > > in a server, so if you have a 32 person complaining about balancing > > issues in a game, that information is kinda scewed because the game is > > not played as intended. > > > > I really didn't want to create the bullshit from a few weeks ago either, > > however i think it was a few months ago, but since no one else has been > > calling Valve out on there short comings and completely ignoring issues > > with there games I thought I might as well start somewhere. This really > > wasn't intended to start the flame back up, but thought it to bring this > > bit up of there idle threats first and get it out of the way since its > > the most touchy of things. > > > > tgnwells wrote: > > > >> I think the problem is valve set up the rules without thinking much > >> about them, or more obviously, how the community would react to being > >> forced to have to adapt to these changes when there's really no reason > to. > >> > >> And a lot of people pay good money for their hosted servers, I don't > >> think Valve should be moderating the servers people put up and start > >> punishing people for something that doesn't really matter either way, I > >> especially hope they don't think they should as well. > >> > >> And to think this whole custom tags argument bullshit could be done with > >> once and for all by adding an "All Servers" tab. > >> > >> chillicane wrote: > >> > >> > >>> indeed you are correct, valve set us up the rules (sic) > >>> > >>> The problem we have in this country is all the major telco run server > >>> opertions have instaspawn servers and none of them end up in the custom > >>> > > tab, > > > >>> wether they are running a plugin version of instaspawn or > >>> disableresapwntimers 1. > >>> > >>> And the custom tab may have only 20 or so servers on it at any one > time. > >>> > >>> hopefully i managed to avoid creating a flame war over this. Certainly > >>> > > dont > > > >>> want to create that bullshit we had here 2 weeks ago. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Jake E <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> good idea > >>>> > >>>> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 7:24 PM, chillicane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>> > > wrote: > > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Apart from the fact that it took me a while to realise the custom tab > >>>>> > > was > > > >>>>> there when it was first implemented, my main issue with it is that it > >>>>> > > is > > > >>>>> STILL not in the out of game, steam server list. > >>>>> > >>>>> I think the tags should still be there, but instead of shunting the > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> servers > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> off to the custom tab where no-one looks, allow them to be searchable > >>>>> > > via > > > >>>>> filters. If something like this was happening instead of the custom > tab > >>>>> arrangment, we wouldnt be trying so hard to circumvent this in the > >>>>> > > first > > > >>>>> place. The fact is, if your on the custom tab, people dont come. > >>>>> > >>>>> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Blood Letter < > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> The last thing Valve wants to do is get in a war with the mod > writers > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> over > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> this. > >>>>>> Every TF2 update will include a patch to the delisting code, and > every > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> mod > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> update will include a patch for that. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I'm a server admin. I don't know what the tags are. I don't know > how > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> to > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> use them. I don't care. > >>>>>> I run a game server for people to have fun. My server run's Beetles > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> Mod > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> for administration and reserved slots. > >>>>>> I have custom maps, but not in my regular rotation. If the server > is > >>>>>> switched to one, you'll be able to download it lickity split from my > >>>>>> redirect. > >>>>>> I see no need for tags in my case. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If you're running a 24/7 or party mode or omg supar low gravity or > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> whatever > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> server that can mess with people's stats, achievements, etc., just > >>>>>> > > list > > > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> it > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> in the damned server name. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> As for tags/stats/etc.... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I'd be more than happy to see Valve do away with the custom tags > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> entirely > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> and just give us more robust filter options, and the option to reset > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> our > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> stats. > >>>>>> Ideally, you'd be able to reset individual stats and achievements, > and > >>>>>> track stats over all time, month, week, etc. Sure, that kind of > stat > >>>>>> tracking is more suited to a mod/plugin, but those would only catch > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> data > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> from one server/group of servers, and you wouldn't see them when > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> loading. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> The way Valve handled stats seems to have been shortsighted. When > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> someone > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> first gets into TF2, they see their stats at each map load and can > see > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> their > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> progress, and it's interesting. It encourages you to try out other > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> classes > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> and do better. After a few weeks/months, you're basically staring > at > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> the > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> same bars. Stats don't age well. A lot of people complain about > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> custom > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> servers avoiding the tags because they can ruin their stats. A lot > of > >>>>>> people want to reset their stats because of this. I'm willing to be > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> there > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> are also a lot of people who would like to reset their stats just > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> because > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> they'd like to get a picture of how they're doing now that they're > >>>>>> experienced with the game. Stats would a lot more fun for me if I > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> could > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> reset them (keeping my unlocks/achievements!) and play for a week or > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> two > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> from a blank slate. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If we can't reset our stats, let us reset our stat displays. Think > of > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> it > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> as an odometer versus a trip odometer. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:31:02 -0400 > >>>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>>>> To: [email protected] > >>>>>>> Subject: [hlds] valve, some feedback? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Most likely there will be a patch and make some of this more > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> worthless > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> then it already is, but since its been kinda quite the last few > days > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> i > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> thought what the heck. No its not beating a long lost dead > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> horse...well > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> maybe a small poke. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> A while ago valve made mention about delisting servers that are > >>>>>>> bypassing the custom tags. Now i am not wanting to start a huge > thing > >>>>>>> again on if there should be tags or what not, but i am more > wondering > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> on > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>>> why valve gave out a kind of idle threat then does nothing with it. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> You > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> look on the lists and there are a bunch of servers that are > bypassing > >>>>>>> it. Is there going to be any actual enforcement here or something > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> else > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> you guys are just giving up on it? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I would like to hear some feedback from valve about some bug fixes > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> that > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>> i had brought up in the list before. most that have been there > since > >>>>>>> long long ago that also seem to have been ignored. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Can we get some information on these things? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> archives, > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> please visit: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ > >>>>>> Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> Messenger. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > > > http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL > > _Refresh_messenger_video_072008 > > > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>>>>> please visit: > >>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> -------- > >>>>> Chillidog Systems - Re-inventing the wheel for the sake of all > >>>>> > > humanity! > > > >>>>> -------- > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>>>> please visit: > >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> I don't have a sig -_- > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>>> please visit: > >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> > > please visit: > > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
