Once again this conversation hits a wall, no one will talk and then we
get to revisit it in a week. Why don't we just hash through and finally
get it done and over with?
On 8/11/2012 8:36 AM, Cameron Munroe wrote:
If per say my servers ran on quickplay they wouldn't be full 24/7. It
is a general idea that quickplay is local and most people are in bed
by 11:30 if not earlier.
The fact is that my community really doesn't need quickplay. It would
probably take my two ctf servers into the ground which frankly I don't
care about too much. The other 9 servers would still be here. Also
when I mean into the ground and I don't care, please don't give me the
speal "since you don't care about them that is why they aren't full
and your a shitty operator" I mean that it wouldn't kill me. I love my
ctf servers and wish I could draw more traffic to them.
Your whole hype about ads seems to be about they are going to dry up
and die. It can also happen to donations. What if someone got a hold
of all your setup for donator rights and threw them into the ground.
You would be bound to lose a lot of your donators. Let say that idea
is just too far out of mind though, and another tf2 update breaks all
donator rights. You tell me then what?
Both ads and donator rights can be abused. If you don't think donator
rights can be abused and are abused then please by god go look at
nighteam's donator rights. http://nighteam.com/index.php?do=premium
For me I would rather not to give people donator rights like the above
to generate simple donations. Its not my cup of tea and I'm afraid of
the above being a slippery slope. I've also played on servers with
this donator rights where donators were gods and I and everyone else
was nothing more then there subjects. If they didn't like you then
boom instant voteban prompt. You head shot them 10+ time boom instant
instant voteban. "Well everyone voted for you?" Yeah, but that is
because all the rest have been trained to do so. The regulars.
I for one want all my players on the same playing field. level, fair,
fun.
Yet if you look at most of the serves with the point of this topic
"FAKE CLIENTS" you will find that most have donator rights and ads.
BOTH, so it isn't a sole "ads" issue.
Ban players under 100 hours from everything else on the internet. What
if they came along and said I hate standard ctf, cp, and the rest.
They go watch a vid and say "OMG SAXTON HALE!" I want to go play that,
but they can't because of your stupid block. Lets say they wanted to
go play on a server that they knew was fun from friends, but they
can't as it doesn't have godlike scores on quickplay? What then are
you going to now force them into a server they don't want, "yes."
In all actuality, if you killed quickplay you probably would make and
help make my CTF servers even fill faster, as now my score on
quickplay is next to nothing. Though I have 9 other servers that have
!hop so people would begin to play on it more as they wouldn't just go
to quickplay.
Quickplay should instead be changed to benefit small communities that
have been verified.
Though I agree with the fact that if you got rid of bad servers I
agree that no traffic will increase to me or other small communities,
it will still all go to valve and lotusclan.
Please realize I'm only using the above communities as an example, no
hard feelings?
On 8/11/2012 4:10 AM, E. Olsen wrote:
I think that everyone has already overlooked the fact that Valve
already has in place the best method possible for weeding out poor
servers - the server score. If a player leaves a server quickly
(which I have to think they will with a bunch of fake clients, etc.)
the score will decline over time, allowing the cream to rise to the top.
Again - I think the root of the problem here is quickplay itself.
Practically overnight, it has lulled new server operators into
thinking that filling servers is not only easy, but is (for the most
part) Valve's responsibility. It has also led to a rise in the use of
fake clients/illegitimate bots in an attempt to garner as much of
that "easy traffic" as possible. We've seen the effects of this every
time there is a hiccup or small change in the system, as this list
lights up with complaints of "quickplay is not working", or
"quickplay no longer fills my servers", etc. etc. Those complaints
are invariably followed by calls for more action against the bad players.
Now, I'm all for taking action against the bad guys - the less of
them the better (for the players, that is). My point is, even if
Valve were able to rid the server list of every nefarious operators
using these kinds of cheats, it wouldn't increase most server
operator's traffic one bit over what you are already getting (which,
if everyone who has their torch and pitchfork out would admit, is the
motivation behind these debates - everyone wants the traffic those
servers are getting).
Looking at the other side of this debate, there's something to consider:
1. Would you actually WANT a player willing to buy admin right and/or
those premium "pay to win" benefits? I sure as hell wouldn't - that's
one step up from buying a hack, IMO. If they're willing to do that,
they're willing to exploit anything they can to win - no thanks.
2. I agree that getting people to donate early on is next to
impossible. My question is, than why would you? We went our first 9
months before accepting a single dime in donations. Build the value
FIRST in your community, and the donations will come. If your next
argument is that donations "dried up", so I HAD to run ads, I would
submit to you that you failed to maintain and build the value in your
community, and adding ads to your MOTD is not adding to that value,
it's simply using random player connections/impressions as a means of
keeping afloat. Will it pay your bills? Maybe...for a time, but
Pinion would not be the first net advertising channel to go under due
to poor sales conversions, and I doubt even the smallest fraction of
players exposed to those ads are in the "buying" frame of mind, and
click-thru/complete a purchase. Over time, Pinion's pool of
advertisers may (IMO) most likely dry up, eliminating that source of
revenue. What is your backup plan then?
3. In the end, there is a fix to all this, but most involved in this
conversation won't like it: Do away with quickplay for all but the
newest (i.e. less than 100 playing hours) players. In fact, let's
disable the server browser for new players, and only let them use
quickplay until they reach a certain point (i.e. X number of hours
played with each class on X number of stock maps). Valve could make
it something to work towards - no access to the server browser until
you've achieved all the minimum requirements to teach you the game,
etc. Once you've reached that, the quickplay button goes away, and
the server browser button appears.
Let's get back to making server operators actually work at building
regular server traffic again. None of this nefarious activity was
ever an issue before the quickplay system was turned on, as it really
didn't really help the guys who did it that much. Server operators
that went to the enormous effort of building awesome gaming
environments and consistently seeding their servers (you know, by
actually playing on them until they filled up) were rewarded over
time with players that favorited them and came back, over and over.
If your community/servers cannot survive without quickplay, you
honestly have to ask yourself if they deserve to. If you rely on
random players that are SENT to you, as opposed to players you
ATTRACT, then you are building a house of cards, plain and simple.
On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 6:27 AM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
?? Never see any ads on YT, oh, wait, I blocked them :)
Same as for in-game adds, MOTD = disabled. No need to "read" them
if one doesn't: cheat, swear, abuse, grief, etc. And those that
do, aren't reading it either. They can "plaster" it with ads for
all I care.
As for the actual SUBJECT of this topic (its gone way off-topic
with the ads stuff), I think valve is already moving into the
steam login required for setting up/running servers. Altho I
think they should set it up that server owners can make a new
steam account, and then request via web-page on steam to add
server functionality to it (for dedicated servers), after which
they can set up servers. That those should get linked to the
owner's main account and the communities steam group(s) should
also be nice. Once that is in place, a good "hammering" is possible.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Sampson Rogers <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Sent:* Saturday, 11 August 2012, 5:46
*Subject:* Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some
changes?
I see no harm in servers running a MOTD ad that takes all of
1 click to get past with no extra effort. There is absolutely
nothing wrong with supporting servers by clicking right past
something you're not even required to view. Look at places
like Youtube, they have ads on nearly all of their videos you
have to wait a few seconds to get past and you can't tell me
Google needs more money. You can also disable HTML MOTD if
you choose, that sounds like a fair in between to me. No
reason to punish communities that provide a good gaming
experience but also run ads on the MOTD to keep the servers
afloat. Nothing wrong with it at all. Other communities
shouldn't be frowned upon for needing a monetary hand in
getting started or maintaining their servers as long as they
do things the right way, don't exploit their users for only a
quick buck and properly administrate their servers.
The truth is, it is not always easy to get donations, even
when you run a solid community, especially starting out.
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