What are you guys talking about when you say ADs? Are we talking about those annoying servers that play AD videos in their MOTD? What the heck is the benefit of running those annoying things on your servers anyways? I don't understand... On Aug 11, 2012 5:30 PM, "Cameron Munroe" <cmun...@cameronmunroe.com> wrote: > > My point is that if I chose to run Ads I shouldn't get ransacked by the email lists' High Priest. If I chose to run my server with ads so that I don't need to go to the steps of nighteam and it works then why does this email thread solely based on "ads." I for one don't like having to sell "donator rights" to my players just so that they can have above a 1.00 kd. > > Once again my point is that both ends of the stick can be used to stab you and you. So Stop making the thread all about you use "ads" then your BAD, as I am not. I simply have used something that worked best for us. > > > On Aug 11, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Todd Pettit wrote: > > > How about reporting clans who are actually in violation of Valves "Policy of Truth" instead of inciting a witch hunt of clans and steam groups more successful than yours. > > > > Nightteam and other clans may have crazy benefits for their members and they may be for sale too but they are not in violation of any policies and the members would be upset if you shut them down. > > Just cause you think something is abusive doesn't make it so. The players determine what is and is not abusive. > > > > There is a huge difference between running ADs and selling perks and admin rights than violating Valves policy of truth. > > > > Fake Clients, Bot Pings, Bot Avatars manipulate the quickplay system and fool newer players into thinking they are playing with humans. > > The player is never aware of this and it takes traffic away from servers who are obeying the policy. > > > > If you don't like Ads, perks and selling admin just don't do it. It is not abusive just cause you think it is. Stick to the policy, please. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Daniel Barreiro" <smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com> > > To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" < hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> > > Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 2:25:11 PM > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? > > > > How about this: we all go on a reporting spree of the abusive clans. > > > > On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Cameron Munroe > > <cmun...@cameronmunroe.com> wrote: > >> Once again this conversation hits a wall, no one will talk and then we get > >> to revisit it in a week. Why don't we just hash through and finally get it > >> done and over with? > >> > >> > >> > >> On 8/11/2012 8:36 AM, Cameron Munroe wrote: > >> > >> If per say my servers ran on quickplay they wouldn't be full 24/7. It is a > >> general idea that quickplay is local and most people are in bed by 11:30 if > >> not earlier. > >> > >> The fact is that my community really doesn't need quickplay. It would > >> probably take my two ctf servers into the ground which frankly I don't care > >> about too much. The other 9 servers would still be here. Also when I mean > >> into the ground and I don't care, please don't give me the speal "since you > >> don't care about them that is why they aren't full and your a shitty > >> operator" I mean that it wouldn't kill me. I love my ctf servers and wish I > >> could draw more traffic to them. > >> > >> Your whole hype about ads seems to be about they are going to dry up and > >> die. It can also happen to donations. What if someone got a hold of all your > >> setup for donator rights and threw them into the ground. You would be bound > >> to lose a lot of your donators. Let say that idea is just too far out of > >> mind though, and another tf2 update breaks all donator rights. You tell me > >> then what? > >> > >> Both ads and donator rights can be abused. If you don't think donator rights > >> can be abused and are abused then please by god go look at nighteam's > >> donator rights. http://nighteam.com/index.php?do=premium > >> > >> For me I would rather not to give people donator rights like the above to > >> generate simple donations. Its not my cup of tea and I'm afraid of the above > >> being a slippery slope. I've also played on servers with this donator > >> rights where donators were gods and I and everyone else was nothing more > >> then there subjects. If they didn't like you then boom instant voteban > >> prompt. You head shot them 10+ time boom instant instant voteban. "Well > >> everyone voted for you?" Yeah, but that is because all the rest have been > >> trained to do so. The regulars. > >> > >> I for one want all my players on the same playing field. level, fair, fun. > >> > >> Yet if you look at most of the serves with the point of this topic "FAKE > >> CLIENTS" you will find that most have donator rights and ads. BOTH, so it > >> isn't a sole "ads" issue. > >> > >> Ban players under 100 hours from everything else on the internet. What if > >> they came along and said I hate standard ctf, cp, and the rest. They go > >> watch a vid and say "OMG SAXTON HALE!" I want to go play that, but they > >> can't because of your stupid block. Lets say they wanted to go play on a > >> server that they knew was fun from friends, but they can't as it doesn't > >> have godlike scores on quickplay? What then are you going to now force them > >> into a server they don't want, "yes." > >> > >> In all actuality, if you killed quickplay you probably would make and help > >> make my CTF servers even fill faster, as now my score on quickplay is next > >> to nothing. Though I have 9 other servers that have !hop so people would > >> begin to play on it more as they wouldn't just go to quickplay. > >> > >> Quickplay should instead be changed to benefit small communities that have > >> been verified. > >> > >> Though I agree with the fact that if you got rid of bad servers I agree that > >> no traffic will increase to me or other small communities, it will still all > >> go to valve and lotusclan. > >> > >> Please realize I'm only using the above communities as an example, no hard > >> feelings? > >> > >> On 8/11/2012 4:10 AM, E. Olsen wrote: > >> > >> I think that everyone has already overlooked the fact that Valve already has > >> in place the best method possible for weeding out poor servers - the server > >> score. If a player leaves a server quickly (which I have to think they will > >> with a bunch of fake clients, etc.) the score will decline over time, > >> allowing the cream to rise to the top. > >> > >> Again - I think the root of the problem here is quickplay itself. > >> Practically overnight, it has lulled new server operators into thinking that > >> filling servers is not only easy, but is (for the most part) Valve's > >> responsibility. It has also led to a rise in the use of fake > >> clients/illegitimate bots in an attempt to garner as much of that "easy > >> traffic" as possible. We've seen the effects of this every time there is a > >> hiccup or small change in the system, as this list lights up with complaints > >> of "quickplay is not working", or "quickplay no longer fills my servers", > >> etc. etc. Those complaints are invariably followed by calls for more action > >> against the bad players. > >> > >> Now, I'm all for taking action against the bad guys - the less of them the > >> better (for the players, that is). My point is, even if Valve were able to > >> rid the server list of every nefarious operators using these kinds of > >> cheats, it wouldn't increase most server operator's traffic one bit over > >> what you are already getting (which, if everyone who has their torch and > >> pitchfork out would admit, is the motivation behind these debates - everyone > >> wants the traffic those servers are getting). > >> > >> Looking at the other side of this debate, there's something to consider: > >> > >> 1. Would you actually WANT a player willing to buy admin right and/or those > >> premium "pay to win" benefits? I sure as hell wouldn't - that's one step up > >> from buying a hack, IMO. If they're willing to do that, they're willing to > >> exploit anything they can to win - no thanks. > >> > >> 2. I agree that getting people to donate early on is next to impossible. My > >> question is, than why would you? We went our first 9 months before accepting > >> a single dime in donations. Build the value FIRST in your community, and the > >> donations will come. If your next argument is that donations "dried up", so > >> I HAD to run ads, I would submit to you that you failed to maintain and > >> build the value in your community, and adding ads to your MOTD is not adding > >> to that value, it's simply using random player connections/impressions as a > >> means of keeping afloat. Will it pay your bills? Maybe...for a time, but > >> Pinion would not be the first net advertising channel to go under due to > >> poor sales conversions, and I doubt even the smallest fraction of players > >> exposed to those ads are in the "buying" frame of mind, and > >> click-thru/complete a purchase. Over time, Pinion's pool of advertisers may > >> (IMO) most likely dry up, eliminating that source of revenue. What is your > >> backup plan then? > >> > >> 3. In the end, there is a fix to all this, but most involved in this > >> conversation won't like it: Do away with quickplay for all but the newest > >> (i.e. less than 100 playing hours) players. In fact, let's disable the > >> server browser for new players, and only let them use quickplay until they > >> reach a certain point (i.e. X number of hours played with each class on X > >> number of stock maps). Valve could make it something to work towards - no > >> access to the server browser until you've achieved all the minimum > >> requirements to teach you the game, etc. Once you've reached that, the > >> quickplay button goes away, and the server browser button appears. > >> > >> Let's get back to making server operators actually work at building regular > >> server traffic again. None of this nefarious activity was ever an issue > >> before the quickplay system was turned on, as it really didn't really help > >> the guys who did it that much. Server operators that went to the enormous > >> effort of building awesome gaming environments and consistently seeding > >> their servers (you know, by actually playing on them until they filled up) > >> were rewarded over time with players that favorited them and came back, over > >> and over. > >> > >> If your community/servers cannot survive without quickplay, you honestly > >> have to ask yourself if they deserve to. If you rely on random players that > >> are SENT to you, as opposed to players you ATTRACT, then you are building a > >> house of cards, plain and simple. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 6:27 AM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk <mreeu...@yahoo.com> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> ?? Never see any ads on YT, oh, wait, I blocked them :) > >>> > >>> Same as for in-game adds, MOTD = disabled. No need to "read" them if one > >>> doesn't: cheat, swear, abuse, grief, etc. And those that do, aren't reading > >>> it either. They can "plaster" it with ads for all I care. > >>> > >>> As for the actual SUBJECT of this topic (its gone way off-topic with the > >>> ads stuff), I think valve is already moving into the steam login required > >>> for setting up/running servers. Altho I think they should set it up that > >>> server owners can make a new steam account, and then request via web-page on > >>> steam to add server functionality to it (for dedicated servers), after which > >>> they can set up servers. That those should get linked to the owner's main > >>> account and the communities steam group(s) should also be nice. Once that is > >>> in place, a good "hammering" is possible. > >>> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> From: Sampson Rogers <kritskring...@gmail.com> > >>> > >>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > >>> <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> > >>> Sent: Saturday, 11 August 2012, 5:46 > >>> > >>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? > >>> > >>> I see no harm in servers running a MOTD ad that takes all of 1 click to > >>> get past with no extra effort. There is absolutely nothing wrong with > >>> supporting servers by clicking right past something you're not even required > >>> to view. Look at places like Youtube, they have ads on nearly all of their > >>> videos you have to wait a few seconds to get past and you can't tell me > >>> Google needs more money. You can also disable HTML MOTD if you choose, that > >>> sounds like a fair in between to me. No reason to punish communities that > >>> provide a good gaming experience but also run ads on the MOTD to keep the > >>> servers afloat. Nothing wrong with it at all. Other communities shouldn't be > >>> frowned upon for needing a monetary hand in getting started or maintaining > >>> their servers as long as they do things the right way, don't exploit their > >>> users for only a quick buck and properly administrate their servers. > >>> > >>> The truth is, it is not always easy to get donations, even when you run a > >>> solid community, especially starting out. > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
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