Ahhh okay. Thanks for the info. On Aug 11, 2012 6:16 PM, "Todd Pettit" <[email protected]> wrote:
> You get $1.50 for every 1000 views. Its a company called pinion. If you > have a solid server it should cover the operating cost of the server. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Timothy Sadleir" <[email protected]> > To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" < > [email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 9:11:33 PM > Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? > > > > > What are you guys talking about when you say ADs? Are we talking about > those annoying servers that play AD videos in their MOTD? What the heck is > the benefit of running those annoying things on your servers anyways? I > don't understand... > On Aug 11, 2012 5:30 PM, "Cameron Munroe" < [email protected] > > wrote: > > > > My point is that if I chose to run Ads I shouldn't get ransacked by the > email lists' High Priest. If I chose to run my server with ads so that I > don't need to go to the steps of nighteam and it works then why does this > email thread solely based on "ads." I for one don't like having to sell > "donator rights" to my players just so that they can have above a 1.00 kd. > > > > Once again my point is that both ends of the stick can be used to stab > you and you. So Stop making the thread all about you use "ads" then your > BAD, as I am not. I simply have used something that worked best for us. > > > > > > On Aug 11, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Todd Pettit wrote: > > > > > How about reporting clans who are actually in violation of Valves > "Policy of Truth" instead of inciting a witch hunt of clans and steam > groups more successful than yours. > > > > > > Nightteam and other clans may have crazy benefits for their members > and they may be for sale too but they are not in violation of any policies > and the members would be upset if you shut them down. > > > Just cause you think something is abusive doesn't make it so. The > players determine what is and is not abusive. > > > > > > There is a huge difference between running ADs and selling perks and > admin rights than violating Valves policy of truth. > > > > > > Fake Clients, Bot Pings, Bot Avatars manipulate the quickplay system > and fool newer players into thinking they are playing with humans. > > > The player is never aware of this and it takes traffic away from > servers who are obeying the policy. > > > > > > If you don't like Ads, perks and selling admin just don't do it. It is > not abusive just cause you think it is. Stick to the policy, please. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Daniel Barreiro" < [email protected] > > > > To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" < > [email protected] > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 2:25:11 PM > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? > > > > > > How about this: we all go on a reporting spree of the abusive clans. > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Cameron Munroe > > > < [email protected] > wrote: > > >> Once again this conversation hits a wall, no one will talk and then > we get > > >> to revisit it in a week. Why don't we just hash through and finally > get it > > >> done and over with? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On 8/11/2012 8:36 AM, Cameron Munroe wrote: > > >> > > >> If per say my servers ran on quickplay they wouldn't be full 24/7. It > is a > > >> general idea that quickplay is local and most people are in bed by > 11:30 if > > >> not earlier. > > >> > > >> The fact is that my community really doesn't need quickplay. It would > > >> probably take my two ctf servers into the ground which frankly I > don't care > > >> about too much. The other 9 servers would still be here. Also when I > mean > > >> into the ground and I don't care, please don't give me the speal > "since you > > >> don't care about them that is why they aren't full and your a shitty > > >> operator" I mean that it wouldn't kill me. I love my ctf servers and > wish I > > >> could draw more traffic to them. > > >> > > >> Your whole hype about ads seems to be about they are going to dry up > and > > >> die. It can also happen to donations. What if someone got a hold of > all your > > >> setup for donator rights and threw them into the ground. You would be > bound > > >> to lose a lot of your donators. Let say that idea is just too far out > of > > >> mind though, and another tf2 update breaks all donator rights. You > tell me > > >> then what? > > >> > > >> Both ads and donator rights can be abused. If you don't think donator > rights > > >> can be abused and are abused then please by god go look at nighteam's > > >> donator rights. http://nighteam.com/index.php?do=premium > > >> > > >> For me I would rather not to give people donator rights like the > above to > > >> generate simple donations. Its not my cup of tea and I'm afraid of > the above > > >> being a slippery slope. I've also played on servers with this donator > > >> rights where donators were gods and I and everyone else was nothing > more > > >> then there subjects. If they didn't like you then boom instant voteban > > >> prompt. You head shot them 10+ time boom instant instant voteban. > "Well > > >> everyone voted for you?" Yeah, but that is because all the rest have > been > > >> trained to do so. The regulars. > > >> > > >> I for one want all my players on the same playing field. level, fair, > fun. > > >> > > >> Yet if you look at most of the serves with the point of this topic > "FAKE > > >> CLIENTS" you will find that most have donator rights and ads. BOTH, > so it > > >> isn't a sole "ads" issue. > > >> > > >> Ban players under 100 hours from everything else on the internet. > What if > > >> they came along and said I hate standard ctf, cp, and the rest. They > go > > >> watch a vid and say "OMG SAXTON HALE!" I want to go play that, but > they > > >> can't because of your stupid block. Lets say they wanted to go play > on a > > >> server that they knew was fun from friends, but they can't as it > doesn't > > >> have godlike scores on quickplay? What then are you going to now > force them > > >> into a server they don't want, "yes." > > >> > > >> In all actuality, if you killed quickplay you probably would make and > help > > >> make my CTF servers even fill faster, as now my score on quickplay is > next > > >> to nothing. Though I have 9 other servers that have !hop so people > would > > >> begin to play on it more as they wouldn't just go to quickplay. > > >> > > >> Quickplay should instead be changed to benefit small communities that > have > > >> been verified. > > >> > > >> Though I agree with the fact that if you got rid of bad servers I > agree that > > >> no traffic will increase to me or other small communities, it will > still all > > >> go to valve and lotusclan. > > >> > > >> Please realize I'm only using the above communities as an example, no > hard > > >> feelings? > > >> > > >> On 8/11/2012 4:10 AM, E. Olsen wrote: > > >> > > >> I think that everyone has already overlooked the fact that Valve > already has > > >> in place the best method possible for weeding out poor servers - the > server > > >> score. If a player leaves a server quickly (which I have to think > they will > > >> with a bunch of fake clients, etc.) the score will decline over time, > > >> allowing the cream to rise to the top. > > >> > > >> Again - I think the root of the problem here is quickplay itself. > > >> Practically overnight, it has lulled new server operators into > thinking that > > >> filling servers is not only easy, but is (for the most part) Valve's > > >> responsibility. It has also led to a rise in the use of fake > > >> clients/illegitimate bots in an attempt to garner as much of that > "easy > > >> traffic" as possible. We've seen the effects of this every time there > is a > > >> hiccup or small change in the system, as this list lights up with > complaints > > >> of "quickplay is not working", or "quickplay no longer fills my > servers", > > >> etc. etc. Those complaints are invariably followed by calls for more > action > > >> against the bad players. > > >> > > >> Now, I'm all for taking action against the bad guys - the less of > them the > > >> better (for the players, that is). My point is, even if Valve were > able to > > >> rid the server list of every nefarious operators using these kinds of > > >> cheats, it wouldn't increase most server operator's traffic one bit > over > > >> what you are already getting (which, if everyone who has their torch > and > > >> pitchfork out would admit, is the motivation behind these debates - > everyone > > >> wants the traffic those servers are getting). > > >> > > >> Looking at the other side of this debate, there's something to > consider: > > >> > > >> 1. Would you actually WANT a player willing to buy admin right and/or > those > > >> premium "pay to win" benefits? I sure as hell wouldn't - that's one > step up > > >> from buying a hack, IMO. If they're willing to do that, they're > willing to > > >> exploit anything they can to win - no thanks. > > >> > > >> 2. I agree that getting people to donate early on is next to > impossible. My > > >> question is, than why would you? We went our first 9 months before > accepting > > >> a single dime in donations. Build the value FIRST in your community, > and the > > >> donations will come. If your next argument is that donations "dried > up", so > > >> I HAD to run ads, I would submit to you that you failed to maintain > and > > >> build the value in your community, and adding ads to your MOTD is not > adding > > >> to that value, it's simply using random player > connections/impressions as a > > >> means of keeping afloat. Will it pay your bills? Maybe...for a time, > but > > >> Pinion would not be the first net advertising channel to go under due > to > > >> poor sales conversions, and I doubt even the smallest fraction of > players > > >> exposed to those ads are in the "buying" frame of mind, and > > >> click-thru/complete a purchase. Over time, Pinion's pool of > advertisers may > > >> (IMO) most likely dry up, eliminating that source of revenue. What is > your > > >> backup plan then? > > >> > > >> 3. In the end, there is a fix to all this, but most involved in this > > >> conversation won't like it: Do away with quickplay for all but the > newest > > >> (i.e. less than 100 playing hours) players. In fact, let's disable the > > >> server browser for new players, and only let them use quickplay until > they > > >> reach a certain point (i.e. X number of hours played with each class > on X > > >> number of stock maps). Valve could make it something to work towards > - no > > >> access to the server browser until you've achieved all the minimum > > >> requirements to teach you the game, etc. Once you've reached that, the > > >> quickplay button goes away, and the server browser button appears. > > >> > > >> Let's get back to making server operators actually work at building > regular > > >> server traffic again. None of this nefarious activity was ever an > issue > > >> before the quickplay system was turned on, as it really didn't really > help > > >> the guys who did it that much. Server operators that went to the > enormous > > >> effort of building awesome gaming environments and consistently > seeding > > >> their servers (you know, by actually playing on them until they > filled up) > > >> were rewarded over time with players that favorited them and came > back, over > > >> and over. > > >> > > >> If your community/servers cannot survive without quickplay, you > honestly > > >> have to ask yourself if they deserve to. If you rely on random > players that > > >> are SENT to you, as opposed to players you ATTRACT, then you are > building a > > >> house of cards, plain and simple. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 6:27 AM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk < > [email protected] > > > >> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> ?? Never see any ads on YT, oh, wait, I blocked them :) > > >>> > > >>> Same as for in-game adds, MOTD = disabled. No need to "read" them if > one > > >>> doesn't: cheat, swear, abuse, grief, etc. And those that do, aren't > reading > > >>> it either. They can "plaster" it with ads for all I care. > > >>> > > >>> As for the actual SUBJECT of this topic (its gone way off-topic with > the > > >>> ads stuff), I think valve is already moving into the steam login > required > > >>> for setting up/running servers. Altho I think they should set it up > that > > >>> server owners can make a new steam account, and then request via > web-page on > > >>> steam to add server functionality to it (for dedicated servers), > after which > > >>> they can set up servers. That those should get linked to the owner's > main > > >>> account and the communities steam group(s) should also be nice. Once > that is > > >>> in place, a good "hammering" is possible. > > >>> > > >>> ________________________________ > > >>> From: Sampson Rogers < [email protected] > > > >>> > > >>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > > >>> < [email protected] > > > >>> Sent: Saturday, 11 August 2012, 5:46 > > >>> > > >>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? > > >>> > > >>> I see no harm in servers running a MOTD ad that takes all of 1 click > to > > >>> get past with no extra effort. There is absolutely nothing wrong with > > >>> supporting servers by clicking right past something you're not even > required > > >>> to view. Look at places like Youtube, they have ads on nearly all of > their > > >>> videos you have to wait a few seconds to get past and you can't tell > me > > >>> Google needs more money. You can also disable HTML MOTD if you > choose, that > > >>> sounds like a fair in between to me. No reason to punish communities > that > > >>> provide a good gaming experience but also run ads on the MOTD to > keep the > > >>> servers afloat. Nothing wrong with it at all. Other communities > shouldn't be > > >>> frowned upon for needing a monetary hand in getting started or > maintaining > > >>> their servers as long as they do things the right way, don't exploit > their > > >>> users for only a quick buck and properly administrate their servers. > > >>> > > >>> The truth is, it is not always easy to get donations, even when you > run a > > >>> solid community, especially starting out. > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > >>> please visit: > > >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > >>> please visit: > > >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > >> please visit: > > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > >> please visit: > > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > >> please visit: > > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >
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