How about this: we all go on a reporting spree of the abusive clans. On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 1:55 PM, Cameron Munroe <[email protected]> wrote: > Once again this conversation hits a wall, no one will talk and then we get > to revisit it in a week. Why don't we just hash through and finally get it > done and over with? > > > > On 8/11/2012 8:36 AM, Cameron Munroe wrote: > > If per say my servers ran on quickplay they wouldn't be full 24/7. It is a > general idea that quickplay is local and most people are in bed by 11:30 if > not earlier. > > The fact is that my community really doesn't need quickplay. It would > probably take my two ctf servers into the ground which frankly I don't care > about too much. The other 9 servers would still be here. Also when I mean > into the ground and I don't care, please don't give me the speal "since you > don't care about them that is why they aren't full and your a shitty > operator" I mean that it wouldn't kill me. I love my ctf servers and wish I > could draw more traffic to them. > > Your whole hype about ads seems to be about they are going to dry up and > die. It can also happen to donations. What if someone got a hold of all your > setup for donator rights and threw them into the ground. You would be bound > to lose a lot of your donators. Let say that idea is just too far out of > mind though, and another tf2 update breaks all donator rights. You tell me > then what? > > Both ads and donator rights can be abused. If you don't think donator rights > can be abused and are abused then please by god go look at nighteam's > donator rights. http://nighteam.com/index.php?do=premium > > For me I would rather not to give people donator rights like the above to > generate simple donations. Its not my cup of tea and I'm afraid of the above > being a slippery slope. I've also played on servers with this donator > rights where donators were gods and I and everyone else was nothing more > then there subjects. If they didn't like you then boom instant voteban > prompt. You head shot them 10+ time boom instant instant voteban. "Well > everyone voted for you?" Yeah, but that is because all the rest have been > trained to do so. The regulars. > > I for one want all my players on the same playing field. level, fair, fun. > > Yet if you look at most of the serves with the point of this topic "FAKE > CLIENTS" you will find that most have donator rights and ads. BOTH, so it > isn't a sole "ads" issue. > > Ban players under 100 hours from everything else on the internet. What if > they came along and said I hate standard ctf, cp, and the rest. They go > watch a vid and say "OMG SAXTON HALE!" I want to go play that, but they > can't because of your stupid block. Lets say they wanted to go play on a > server that they knew was fun from friends, but they can't as it doesn't > have godlike scores on quickplay? What then are you going to now force them > into a server they don't want, "yes." > > In all actuality, if you killed quickplay you probably would make and help > make my CTF servers even fill faster, as now my score on quickplay is next > to nothing. Though I have 9 other servers that have !hop so people would > begin to play on it more as they wouldn't just go to quickplay. > > Quickplay should instead be changed to benefit small communities that have > been verified. > > Though I agree with the fact that if you got rid of bad servers I agree that > no traffic will increase to me or other small communities, it will still all > go to valve and lotusclan. > > Please realize I'm only using the above communities as an example, no hard > feelings? > > On 8/11/2012 4:10 AM, E. Olsen wrote: > > I think that everyone has already overlooked the fact that Valve already has > in place the best method possible for weeding out poor servers - the server > score. If a player leaves a server quickly (which I have to think they will > with a bunch of fake clients, etc.) the score will decline over time, > allowing the cream to rise to the top. > > Again - I think the root of the problem here is quickplay itself. > Practically overnight, it has lulled new server operators into thinking that > filling servers is not only easy, but is (for the most part) Valve's > responsibility. It has also led to a rise in the use of fake > clients/illegitimate bots in an attempt to garner as much of that "easy > traffic" as possible. We've seen the effects of this every time there is a > hiccup or small change in the system, as this list lights up with complaints > of "quickplay is not working", or "quickplay no longer fills my servers", > etc. etc. Those complaints are invariably followed by calls for more action > against the bad players. > > Now, I'm all for taking action against the bad guys - the less of them the > better (for the players, that is). My point is, even if Valve were able to > rid the server list of every nefarious operators using these kinds of > cheats, it wouldn't increase most server operator's traffic one bit over > what you are already getting (which, if everyone who has their torch and > pitchfork out would admit, is the motivation behind these debates - everyone > wants the traffic those servers are getting). > > Looking at the other side of this debate, there's something to consider: > > 1. Would you actually WANT a player willing to buy admin right and/or those > premium "pay to win" benefits? I sure as hell wouldn't - that's one step up > from buying a hack, IMO. If they're willing to do that, they're willing to > exploit anything they can to win - no thanks. > > 2. I agree that getting people to donate early on is next to impossible. My > question is, than why would you? We went our first 9 months before accepting > a single dime in donations. Build the value FIRST in your community, and the > donations will come. If your next argument is that donations "dried up", so > I HAD to run ads, I would submit to you that you failed to maintain and > build the value in your community, and adding ads to your MOTD is not adding > to that value, it's simply using random player connections/impressions as a > means of keeping afloat. Will it pay your bills? Maybe...for a time, but > Pinion would not be the first net advertising channel to go under due to > poor sales conversions, and I doubt even the smallest fraction of players > exposed to those ads are in the "buying" frame of mind, and > click-thru/complete a purchase. Over time, Pinion's pool of advertisers may > (IMO) most likely dry up, eliminating that source of revenue. What is your > backup plan then? > > 3. In the end, there is a fix to all this, but most involved in this > conversation won't like it: Do away with quickplay for all but the newest > (i.e. less than 100 playing hours) players. In fact, let's disable the > server browser for new players, and only let them use quickplay until they > reach a certain point (i.e. X number of hours played with each class on X > number of stock maps). Valve could make it something to work towards - no > access to the server browser until you've achieved all the minimum > requirements to teach you the game, etc. Once you've reached that, the > quickplay button goes away, and the server browser button appears. > > Let's get back to making server operators actually work at building regular > server traffic again. None of this nefarious activity was ever an issue > before the quickplay system was turned on, as it really didn't really help > the guys who did it that much. Server operators that went to the enormous > effort of building awesome gaming environments and consistently seeding > their servers (you know, by actually playing on them until they filled up) > were rewarded over time with players that favorited them and came back, over > and over. > > If your community/servers cannot survive without quickplay, you honestly > have to ask yourself if they deserve to. If you rely on random players that > are SENT to you, as opposed to players you ATTRACT, then you are building a > house of cards, plain and simple. > > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 6:27 AM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk <[email protected]> > wrote: >> >> ?? Never see any ads on YT, oh, wait, I blocked them :) >> >> Same as for in-game adds, MOTD = disabled. No need to "read" them if one >> doesn't: cheat, swear, abuse, grief, etc. And those that do, aren't reading >> it either. They can "plaster" it with ads for all I care. >> >> As for the actual SUBJECT of this topic (its gone way off-topic with the >> ads stuff), I think valve is already moving into the steam login required >> for setting up/running servers. Altho I think they should set it up that >> server owners can make a new steam account, and then request via web-page on >> steam to add server functionality to it (for dedicated servers), after which >> they can set up servers. That those should get linked to the owner's main >> account and the communities steam group(s) should also be nice. Once that is >> in place, a good "hammering" is possible. >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Sampson Rogers <[email protected]> >> >> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list >> <[email protected]> >> Sent: Saturday, 11 August 2012, 5:46 >> >> Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? >> >> I see no harm in servers running a MOTD ad that takes all of 1 click to >> get past with no extra effort. There is absolutely nothing wrong with >> supporting servers by clicking right past something you're not even required >> to view. Look at places like Youtube, they have ads on nearly all of their >> videos you have to wait a few seconds to get past and you can't tell me >> Google needs more money. You can also disable HTML MOTD if you choose, that >> sounds like a fair in between to me. No reason to punish communities that >> provide a good gaming experience but also run ads on the MOTD to keep the >> servers afloat. Nothing wrong with it at all. Other communities shouldn't be >> frowned upon for needing a monetary hand in getting started or maintaining >> their servers as long as they do things the right way, don't exploit their >> users for only a quick buck and properly administrate their servers. >> >> The truth is, it is not always easy to get donations, even when you run a >> solid community, especially starting out. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >
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