@ Robert Paulson - agreed. @ 1nsane:
Or maybe implement something like CS:GO's overwatch (except for servers) > and let certain players look at server reports from other players > (anonymously). The less policing valve has to do manually the more likely > it is to make everyone in the community happy. Server ops and players alike. > Frankly, I hate the idea of giving certain people more power over other players when it comes to judging this or that. It always brings up the possibility of bias or abuse. That's why I still truly believe all Valve needs to do is create a client-side server blacklisting system for players that works across the board (with both QP and the server browser). That puts the power to decide the quality of a server (regardless of that server's settings) BACK into the hands of the players. The servers that have great playing environments ( even to include *gasp* servers with all kinds of modifications) will naturally get more and more traffic, and the "bad" servers will get blacklisted by more and more players, eventually falling off the radar. Even better - let's give players even MORE tools to find those servers that they like. How about a giant button on the UI marked "FAVORITES" that they can click without having to open the server browser? How about changing the "Play Mulitplayer" button to "Valve Servers" and adding a button of EQUAL SIZE under it labled "Community Servers"? That would also go a long way to stop misleading new players into thinking that the "play Multiplayer" button is the only way to play online. Those should be relatively easy changes. Implement that, and all these ill-conceived rules that are homogenizing a game that THRIVED on the customization it received from the community can be thrown out, and we can get back to doing what we do best - attracting LONG TERM players and building our own community events around the game. ;-) P.S. I still want an idiot-proof map editor too ;-) On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Robert Paulson <thepauls...@gmail.com> wrote: > Very few players use community quickplay anymore and it was like that > before a few servers started breaking quickplay rules. I assume you are > talking about the Stop the Tank server. Yes it should be delisted, but even > if it happens right now it isn't going to make any difference to your > server population. All the other vanilla servers are empty. > > The dev who did this knew it was going to kill off communities, so they > wouldn't have to spend any time cleaning up community servers. Complaining > about this only validates his position. If server owners can't tolerate a > few bad servers, how can you expect players to do the same? > > It is sad that we are arguing with each other and trying to add > restrictions on our servers, including ones that don't exist on official > ones such as class limits. If we are more interested in killing off > competition than reversing the quickplay ban, we will all die together. > > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 1:19 PM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I wanted to check out some other payload servers now. First >> quickplay server I get sent to is half-full of players that look like >> robots and the frigging payload cart has the audacity to shoot at me! Can >> you imagine the horror? Well I had to experience it in person... >> >> Second try at it was even worse if you can imagine. Won't even discuss it >> as such. Pretty sure the policy of truth has long since been forgotten. Or >> maybe it was never meant to be enforced. Ban a few servers here and there >> and hope that everyone else is too scared to do it. Because reporting >> servers that were blatantly abusing it got us either nowhere or took many >> months before any action came around. Then they would just spawn some new >> servers and repeat. Making everything harder for both the players who want >> to have fun and the server owners who wanted to provide a fun place to be. >> >> There's many ways to solve this. Trust new servers less until they prove >> themselves. After all they have the least to lose if they get banned. Can >> be fully automated and delisting will actually mean something. Imagine if >> quickplay had some sort of a working scoring system. If only valve would >> consider it. >> >> Or maybe implement something like CS:GO's overwatch (except for servers) >> and let certain players look at server reports from other players >> (anonymously). The less policing valve has to do manually the more likely >> it is to make everyone in the community happy. Server ops and players alike. >> >> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 3:58 PM, E. Olsen <ceo.eol...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> If you've found server violating the policy, by all means report them to >>> Valve, but I don't think conducting a public "witch hunt" on the mailing >>> list is a good idea. All I've seen in the past is quite a few false >>> accusations, etc. Hell, I remember a couple of years back someone getting >>> our servers added to a reddit-based blacklist of servers that used Pinion >>> advertising - even though we've NEVER used any advertising on our servers. >>> It took a dozen people actually standing up and saying "uh, these guys >>> don't use pinion" before they removed us. >>> >>> Honestly - I doubt even those people violating the policy are getting >>> much in the way of quickplay traffic anyway. I only have less than half of >>> our servers quickplay-enabled anymore, and those have sat empty since about >>> a month after the change last year. >>> >>> When you think about it, what really needs to be addressed is the >>> reasons people feel they need to violate that policy. Considering that you >>> never heard of server owners "hiding" their server settings until Valve >>> bifurcated the TF2's traffic by saying "you'll only get access to the main >>> source of traffic if you make your server identical to every other vanilla >>> server". >>> >>> Should those folks be thrown out of quickplay for breaking the rules? >>> Sure thing....but perhaps it's the rules themselves (and the way they are >>> implemented to remove/stifle any and all diversity) that need to be >>> changed, as does the implementation of quickplay itself. >>> >>> Take, for instance, the rules against class limits. Why is that still >>> listed in the policy when valve now allows class limit votes? If a class >>> limit vote passes on a quickplay-enabled server, are we now in violation - >>> even though it's part of the engine itself? >>> >>> How about another scenario: Let's say an operator wants to run his >>> servers plain-jane, 24-slot vanilla during the slow hours of the day to >>> help during daytime traffic, but at night during prime time manually >>> changes their settings to 32-slot, fast respawn servers. He's not hiding >>> anything - all the appropriate sv_tags get set - but during prime time the >>> extra slots are needed for our supporters. Is he now in violation of the >>> policy because he's changed his settings? >>> >>> Of course not - but I'm sure some folks would perceive it that way. >>> >>> ....and therein lies the problem. When valve decided that an automated >>> system for throwing players into a random server was superior to a player >>> choosing a server on their own from the server browser, they caused more >>> problems than they solved. >>> >>> If there are folks out there breaking those rules - I'm sure Valve will >>> catch them, but frankly, If every single one of them were thrown out of >>> quickplay, it wouldn't help any other community operators one bit....and >>> will probably just hasten the demise of community servers all together. >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Lucas Wagner <lgwag...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I think the policy either needs to be enforced, or abandoned >>>> completely. In the current state the policy only affects those server >>>> operators that have the honor to follow it. This is not news to anyone, but >>>> it is a bit disconcerting to read a policy, understand its meaning, follow >>>> it, and then watch as others violate it without consequence. Sure I can >>>> sleep at night knowing I did right by Valve but that doesn't keep my >>>> servers filled. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:52 AM, N-Gon <ngongamedes...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sounds like a great title for a SFM short :) >>>>> >>>>> Last year Valve shook up the TF2 community by changing many of their >>>>> policies on Quickplay (Plenty of which is still being debated and I don't >>>>> want that talk in this thread, there's already numerous others for that; >>>>> Thanks), they also took the extra step and punished servers who broke >>>>> their >>>>> Policy of Truth. Plenty of communities, both big and small, crumbled and >>>>> vanished that day to the rejoice of many of you. But now I fear the time >>>>> has come again to snitch. >>>>> Since Valve has made their Quickplay changes many communities have >>>>> started to cheat the system to get more traffic. >>>>> I've been Quickplay'd into servers that have donor effects, that kick >>>>> me out for reserve slots, that have silly class limitations, that don't >>>>> have their Respawn modifiers tagged. This is really annoying especially >>>>> when I'm just trying to find a Vanilla server. >>>>> If you know of servers, report them. If need be, spread their names on >>>>> here so other folks on HLDS can go see for themselves, verify they are >>>>> abusing Quickplay, and report them as well. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >
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