Now that tf2 has a redirect command, I guess redirection should be allowed for quick play On 2015-02-11 7:28 PM, "Robert Paulson" <[email protected]> wrote:
> That might not be your intention but that is what Valve sees. They see a > bunch of disorganized communities who can't even agree on 1 thing, so it is > easier to do nothing. Here is what the mailing list looks like: > > - I don't use attachments so disable them. > - I don't run 32 slot servers so have quickplay kill them. > - I don't use the MOTD so block them. > - I don't run vanilla servers so make it Valve only. > - I don't use plugins so block them. > - All these quickplay cheaters are stealing my traffic even though no one > is using community quickplay anymore. > > This is the kind of attitude that is killing TF2. Now we can't even have > reserved slots if the server is full and an admin needs to get in to handle > a ban report. > > Valve is smart, if they really wanted to fix the problem, they would have > done so already without our input. The problem is that they lack motivation > and we need to work on that instead. > > A rating system and blackilst covering quickplay could potentially solve > whatever issue they have a problem with, but we don't know for sure and > they have been posted on the list multiple times. Before we keep throwing > random suggestions out there, we need to know what exactly is Valve's > problem with community servers. Otherwise they will just see a bunch of > random solutions for random problems they don't have and ignore them. > Before they tell us their problems, the best course of action is to simply > keep this issue in the spotlight. > > > On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 2:20 PM, 1nsane <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Killing off competition? That's not what I was getting at. A proper >> scoring system for quickplay would show which servers are good and liked by >> players. Be it valve's own or certain community servers. It would also make >> it easy for valve to see what features are liked the most. Bad servers will >> always pop up. Having a system to combat that would make everybody happy. >> >> And if we are talking about "competition" that's abusing quickplay. They >> are the ones being rewarded when valve adds such measures. As they aren't >> afraid to lose their playbase with a ban on their server. Which itself is >> something that may or may not happen ever again. In the meantime they can >> do what they want to keep players on their servers longer. Even when it's >> against the quickplay rules. This sort of thing adds up. More players join >> such servers and the competition suffers and dies. Then you get some of >> their players as well :). >> >> If valve no longer feels like enforcing their own rules then it will only >> get worse. Little risk and why should we share players when we can take >> each other's? This is the sort of thinking that got us into this mess and >> these sort of people will always be around. But there's always ways to deal >> with them. Some easier than others. >> >> Any communication from valve would help. They can always go for a bandaid >> solution again. It wouldn't help much but it would be very easy to do and >> still help a bit in the short term. Make an announcement about a renewed >> commitment to the policy of truth (similar to the one before) and do >> nothing. Takes very little time and it will scare some people just like it >> did last time >> >> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Robert Paulson <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Very few players use community quickplay anymore and it was like that >>> before a few servers started breaking quickplay rules. I assume you are >>> talking about the Stop the Tank server. Yes it should be delisted, but even >>> if it happens right now it isn't going to make any difference to your >>> server population. All the other vanilla servers are empty. >>> >>> The dev who did this knew it was going to kill off communities, so they >>> wouldn't have to spend any time cleaning up community servers. Complaining >>> about this only validates his position. If server owners can't tolerate a >>> few bad servers, how can you expect players to do the same? >>> >>> It is sad that we are arguing with each other and trying to add >>> restrictions on our servers, including ones that don't exist on official >>> ones such as class limits. If we are more interested in killing off >>> competition than reversing the quickplay ban, we will all die together. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 1:19 PM, 1nsane <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I wanted to check out some other payload servers now. First >>>> quickplay server I get sent to is half-full of players that look like >>>> robots and the frigging payload cart has the audacity to shoot at me! Can >>>> you imagine the horror? Well I had to experience it in person... >>>> >>>> Second try at it was even worse if you can imagine. Won't even discuss >>>> it as such. Pretty sure the policy of truth has long since been forgotten. >>>> Or maybe it was never meant to be enforced. Ban a few servers here and >>>> there and hope that everyone else is too scared to do it. Because reporting >>>> servers that were blatantly abusing it got us either nowhere or took many >>>> months before any action came around. Then they would just spawn some new >>>> servers and repeat. Making everything harder for both the players who want >>>> to have fun and the server owners who wanted to provide a fun place to be. >>>> >>>> There's many ways to solve this. Trust new servers less until they >>>> prove themselves. After all they have the least to lose if they get banned. >>>> Can be fully automated and delisting will actually mean something. Imagine >>>> if quickplay had some sort of a working scoring system. If only valve would >>>> consider it. >>>> >>>> Or maybe implement something like CS:GO's overwatch (except for >>>> servers) and let certain players look at server reports from other players >>>> (anonymously). The less policing valve has to do manually the more likely >>>> it is to make everyone in the community happy. Server ops and players >>>> alike. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 3:58 PM, E. Olsen <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> If you've found server violating the policy, by all means report them >>>>> to Valve, but I don't think conducting a public "witch hunt" on the >>>>> mailing >>>>> list is a good idea. All I've seen in the past is quite a few false >>>>> accusations, etc. Hell, I remember a couple of years back someone getting >>>>> our servers added to a reddit-based blacklist of servers that used Pinion >>>>> advertising - even though we've NEVER used any advertising on our servers. >>>>> It took a dozen people actually standing up and saying "uh, these guys >>>>> don't use pinion" before they removed us. >>>>> >>>>> Honestly - I doubt even those people violating the policy are getting >>>>> much in the way of quickplay traffic anyway. I only have less than half of >>>>> our servers quickplay-enabled anymore, and those have sat empty since >>>>> about >>>>> a month after the change last year. >>>>> >>>>> When you think about it, what really needs to be addressed is the >>>>> reasons people feel they need to violate that policy. Considering that you >>>>> never heard of server owners "hiding" their server settings until Valve >>>>> bifurcated the TF2's traffic by saying "you'll only get access to the main >>>>> source of traffic if you make your server identical to every other vanilla >>>>> server". >>>>> >>>>> Should those folks be thrown out of quickplay for breaking the rules? >>>>> Sure thing....but perhaps it's the rules themselves (and the way they are >>>>> implemented to remove/stifle any and all diversity) that need to be >>>>> changed, as does the implementation of quickplay itself. >>>>> >>>>> Take, for instance, the rules against class limits. Why is that still >>>>> listed in the policy when valve now allows class limit votes? If a class >>>>> limit vote passes on a quickplay-enabled server, are we now in violation - >>>>> even though it's part of the engine itself? >>>>> >>>>> How about another scenario: Let's say an operator wants to run his >>>>> servers plain-jane, 24-slot vanilla during the slow hours of the day to >>>>> help during daytime traffic, but at night during prime time manually >>>>> changes their settings to 32-slot, fast respawn servers. He's not hiding >>>>> anything - all the appropriate sv_tags get set - but during prime time the >>>>> extra slots are needed for our supporters. Is he now in violation of the >>>>> policy because he's changed his settings? >>>>> >>>>> Of course not - but I'm sure some folks would perceive it that way. >>>>> >>>>> ....and therein lies the problem. When valve decided that an automated >>>>> system for throwing players into a random server was superior to a player >>>>> choosing a server on their own from the server browser, they caused more >>>>> problems than they solved. >>>>> >>>>> If there are folks out there breaking those rules - I'm sure Valve >>>>> will catch them, but frankly, If every single one of them were thrown out >>>>> of quickplay, it wouldn't help any other community operators one >>>>> bit....and >>>>> will probably just hasten the demise of community servers all together. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Lucas Wagner <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I think the policy either needs to be enforced, or abandoned >>>>>> completely. In the current state the policy only affects those server >>>>>> operators that have the honor to follow it. This is not news to anyone, >>>>>> but >>>>>> it is a bit disconcerting to read a policy, understand its meaning, >>>>>> follow >>>>>> it, and then watch as others violate it without consequence. Sure I can >>>>>> sleep at night knowing I did right by Valve but that doesn't keep my >>>>>> servers filled. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:52 AM, N-Gon <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sounds like a great title for a SFM short :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Last year Valve shook up the TF2 community by changing many of their >>>>>>> policies on Quickplay (Plenty of which is still being debated and I >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>> want that talk in this thread, there's already numerous others for that; >>>>>>> Thanks), they also took the extra step and punished servers who broke >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> Policy of Truth. Plenty of communities, both big and small, crumbled and >>>>>>> vanished that day to the rejoice of many of you. But now I fear the time >>>>>>> has come again to snitch. >>>>>>> Since Valve has made their Quickplay changes many communities have >>>>>>> started to cheat the system to get more traffic. >>>>>>> I've been Quickplay'd into servers that have donor effects, that >>>>>>> kick me out for reserve slots, that have silly class limitations, that >>>>>>> don't have their Respawn modifiers tagged. This is really annoying >>>>>>> especially when I'm just trying to find a Vanilla server. >>>>>>> If you know of servers, report them. If need be, spread their names >>>>>>> on here so other folks on HLDS can go see for themselves, verify they >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> abusing Quickplay, and report them as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >
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