"I've heard all the arguments in favor of them, but in the end it will all come down to perception. MOTD ads have painted all community servers with the same brush in the eyes of the players, to include those communities that have never used them. Until and unless we're willing to come to a consensus that they've done more harm than good, and continue to cause a negative perception of community servers as a whole, I'm not sure how we can ever get players to support better treatment for community servers, much less Valve (and in case you missed it, even doing something as small for community servers as removing Valve servers from the server browser caused such an uproar from the players, Valve reversed it less than 24 hours later)."
I logically have to agree, but do you think there'd be any chance that trying to explain Valve shot first essentially? I ask only because I'm trying to view this in a way that everyone gets a chance to run a server however they want an leave things up to player perception. A server op could easily add in a line that to their tags that say ad-supported or something, but it goes up to the earlier comments of who will enforce it? I find it unfair that so much pressure comes down to ads, but I whole-heartedly understand why. It's just a fact is all, that Quickplay came first, and that Valve supported Pinion in both their forums, and used them on their servers. Us losing MOTD's in general though is incredibly annoying, that extra bit of hey welcome to my server, sort of thing. @Paul That is the overall goal here, to get them to listen! We'll figure it out. On that note, when you see how upset people around here can be, try and take a moment to consider that this isn't just "us". Someone brought up earlier and it's still important, that Valve simply doesn't have any community relations. This spans to almost every part of their community overall, and has left a very sour note with a lot of people. When people want attention and don't get it, it makes them violent. I recently spoke with someone of PC Gamer on this subject after they posted an article interview with Gabe Newell where he ironically talked about how PC gaming communities make it great, after I told him the scenario and showed him some of my research, they got back to me saying how over at PC gamer and all of the press Valve is a difficult company to write about as they will never reply to press inquiries. On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 3:24 PM, Paul <[email protected]> wrote: > Meant to post the following reply on the mailing list: > > A better idea for quickplay clients would've been to have render static > content only, while any normal (non-quickplay) client has the full HTML > MOTD still. Do I have to also mention a forgotten detail? It's convenient > for you to solely blame video ads still, but particularly on a similar > topic what about those servers which used the MOTD to do abusive background > activities (e.g. to go to PTP sites or some other malicious content without > the users knowledge). What about some servers which also loaded a radio > that someone didn't necessarily want but didn't notice was on the MOTD > prior to just quickly continuing into the game? Anyway, your last paragraph > just answered everything pretty much and as Quickplay has no HTML MOTD and > there is an option to disable it then problem solved. If you wanted to be > picky and state that servers could detect whether HTML MOTD is enabled or > not, then why not remove the ability for servers to check that? > > The present question here I believe is will Valve do anything positive for > community servers? I think the likelihood is extremely low but I live in > hope. Your UI design idea is great but Valve appear to be paying no > attention to the squabbling or suggestions going on in this mailing list. > There needs to be another way to communicate with them about the Quickplay > situation in both a balanced and civilised manner. > > On 19 December 2015 at 13:41, E. Olsen <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Of course - the fact that the long-standing functionality of the MOTD >> window had to be disabled in the first place meant that those of us who >> never used those ads lost the ability to display important info in-game to >> the majority of new players....so yeah, thanks for that. >> >> I find it incredibly puzzling that people willfully fail to recognize the >> fact that MOTD ads did so much more harm to community server hosting than >> any "good" that might have come from them. We lost MOTD functionality for >> the largest source of new players, the rampant use and abuse of them >> painted all community servers in a negative light (and still does), and the >> folks that are using them the most (or running the companies supplying >> them) always want to let us all know how they're "not the problem" anymore, >> despite the fact that if you ask the question in any open forum what TF2 >> players hate the most about community servers, the #1 thing that will >> always come up is MOTD ads. >> >> Sure, I get that they let some server operators pay their bills, but at >> what long-term cost? What does it matter if a few hundred more servers can >> exist if it gives the perception to players that community server operators >> are just trying to make a buck? >> >> Frankly, anyone who claims that those ads "aren't a problem" isn't paying >> attention to what the players are saying. Sure. there may be a small subset >> of players that "don't care" or who are smart enough to block the ads from >> running on the servers that use them, but I think any conversation with >> Valve that includes "let us keep plastering ads on our servers" while >> asking for equitable treatment is going to fall on deaf ears. >> >> I've heard all the arguments in favor of them, but in the end it will all >> come down to perception. MOTD ads have painted all community servers with >> the same brush in the eyes of the players, to include those communities >> that have never used them. Until and unless we're willing to come to a >> consensus that they've done more harm than good, and continue to cause a >> negative perception of community servers as a whole, I'm not sure how we >> can ever get players to support better treatment for community servers, >> much less Valve (and in case you missed it, even doing something as small >> for community servers as removing Valve servers from the server browser >> caused such an uproar from the players, Valve reversed it less than 24 >> hours later). >> >> In fact, honestly, I think that's a question worth asking the player base >> as a whole. What if we were to ask the players the question "Would you >> support community servers again if Valve removed the ability for MOTD ads >> to function?" If the overwhelming answer was "yes" than we would definitely >> know what we needed to ask Valve to do to bring some equitable treatment >> back. >> >> On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 4:35 AM, Paul <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Lets not forget that adverts aren't an issue with Quickplay clients >>> anymore. That's outdated information, Valve disabled the HTML MOTD for that >>> type of connection before later on eventually pointing Quickplay to their >>> official servers by default. >>> >>> Ultimately the issue that exists is the potential for abusing Quickplay >>> and I imagine is pretty much the primary reason why Valve actually changed >>> Quickplay to point to their official servers by default in the first place. >>> A good example is when one large community (no names, don't wish to provoke >>> an argument) faked bots as real people with real avatars and pings in the >>> scoreboard, or when certain other large communities fooled Quickplay into >>> believing they had more players than they really did (in order to get the >>> majority of Quickplay traffic pushed to them). >>> >>> >>> On 19 December 2015 at 03:32, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> "You seemed to have missed the point Matthias, I have genuine >>>> difficulty that an individual such as yourself would be so truly bothered >>>> by a short video in the MOTD played when you first join a server." >>>> >>>> It's so great that you know me. >>>> Yes, I get bothered by each and every ad I hear. I have never heard a >>>> quiet ad (or to be honest, one with regular speaking voice), anywhere on >>>> the web. It's part of advertisement culture that they're so loud. People >>>> got accustomed to this because during tv breaks they would usually go to >>>> the kitchen or the bathroom (which is why they are so loud in the first >>>> place), and it became second nature. (Luckily there are restrictions in >>>> Germany for the volume of a tv ad) You can't cancel them once they play, >>>> and worst, they usually replay again. Not when you first connect. Not on >>>> map change, but every round. >>>> I did the experiment I mentioned earlier. I had a script join a list of >>>> non-valve servers one after the other. I left the speakers on. It wasn't >>>> fun. I get why people who used the server browser got a bad impression of >>>> community servers. Not only because of P2W and faking player counts. It is >>>> one of the things that led to quickplay being the preferred method to find >>>> a game. >>>> It also doesn't help that the motd option is buried in the advanced >>>> options. And I also think it doesn't clearly associate this with the >>>> functionality of ads. Good luck to the average joe making that connection >>>> and finding that option (keep in mind how much effort the average player >>>> can put into this, if you do anything related to UIs you know), so he can >>>> pick a server in the browser. We know how it ended, he went extinct. Or >>>> evolution grabbed him by the balls and dragged him to the current QP. (Keep >>>> this in mind for the previous paragraph) >>>> >>>> >>>> On 19.12.2015 04:14, Cats From Above wrote: >>>> >>>> You seemed to have missed the point Matthias, I have genuine difficulty >>>> that an individual such as yourself would be so truly bothered by a short >>>> video in the MOTD played when you first join a server. Now don’t get me >>>> wrong, I do agree there are some mildly agitating ways to implement adverts >>>> and these ways shouldn’t be allowed. I personally would take exception to >>>> A) Having to wait a noticeable period of time before joining a team. B) >>>> Being unable to stop the advert. C) Being penalised for having HTML MOTDs >>>> disabled D) Having adverts played after I joined a team for the first time. >>>> (Ergo, on death, round win, timer etc.) >>>> >>>> >>>> However, I would argue that those evils are a secondary problem with >>>> server providers implementing adverts in a nefarious way as opposed to >>>> existence of adverts themselves. Whilst these implementations may coincide >>>> with the existence of adverts on some servers, I’m skeptical about the >>>> insinuation that all server operators implement adverts in these ways as I >>>> know many do not. >>>> >>>> >>>> And I would further argue that banishing video MOTDs is not part of the >>>> union of getting servers back into the default Quickplay pool as for again, >>>> the current status quo is such that HTML adverts are not an issue in terms >>>> of Quickplay and Valve coded a solution which prevents the MOTD being >>>> reopened by a server for Quickplay connects. If you wish to change that, >>>> perhaps you could start your own discussion, instead of flagrantly >>>> derailing this discussion about the default Quickplay pools into your own >>>> personal vendetta against advertising. I for one do not intend to continue >>>> discussing side issues such as this in the given context of getting servers >>>> back into the default Quickplay pool and would implore you to do the same. >>>> Thanks. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 1:22 PM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek < >>>> <[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Well, ads are part of the union, if you like it or not. Not saying >>>>> those people can go to hell (right now), but transparency is why quickplay >>>>> exists and lack of transparency is why community gameplay is excluded. >>>>> I've >>>>> heard a lot of people saying I can go screw myself because the players can >>>>> choose if they want to join their server and consume ads or not. (On this >>>>> very list) Well, let them. >>>>> But yes, current quickplay restrictions are also about popups and motd >>>>> abusing as you can read in the article. So yeah, if your motd would be so >>>>> loud it would physically hurt my ears, get it fixed. lol (Or these >>>>> caffeine >>>>> ads with the shock moments, but on roids) >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > -- *Matthew (Rowedahelicon) Robinson* Web Designer / Artist / Writer Website - http://www.rowedahelicon.com/
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