There's no pressure from anywhere to close this mailing list. Since most people seem to be happy with the list in its current form, it looks like it's highly unlikely that we would be able to find another alternative that offers compelling enough advantages to make it worth our while to migrate.
Making it easier to search the archives seems like something simple we could look into. I'll see you guys in another two years when the next Valve noob brings up this topic again. :) Cheers, Fletch -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of ics Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 10:03 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Forum vs. email list I prefer mailing list. Just because it's easy to use while reading regular e-mail and you can just pick a message to read easily, delete immediately the rest that you don't need. On forum, you have to browse around on many threads and it's very time consuming. I also hate the SPUF style where you just get post to your mail that happened after your reply and the messages after that are ignored untill i visit the forum again. Forums might be clean first but full of dirt later. Too many immature people there, way less here on this list. People go crazy on forums whenever someone from Valve replies, they want to contribute. I'ts a mess there. Benefit on forums is the the easier search and messages browsing if you prefer reading all once a week and have time to go through all the messages. The count of messages that should not be posted would rise high too. It would be harder to find the thing you are looking for. It's good for historians. How many people browse old messages anyway and why? To check something or find answer? Isn't wiki for the answers better or some sort of section "how to run a server for dummies". The recent change where there's as much as ~10 people been around from Valve within a month is something i've never seen before. I thought the list would live long and the latter closing notice would have been proved wrong but i guess there is pressure to close the list down. This is way more convinient than forums. Please do not close this down. -ics 25.10.2011 7:28, Andrew kirjoitti: > What about adding some kind of easy searching to the mailing list > archives? That seems to be only commonly brought up minus to keeping > this format. > > I am able to access them (the archives) with my login, but the > standard listings by month and downloadable gzip'ed archives makes > searching nontrivial. Improving that would be a big + > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 11:24 PM, m33crob<[email protected]> wrote: >> I too would prefer to keep the mailing list. If a forum materializes out of >> this conversation, I would be interested in becoming a moderator. I'm >> already super active in the Steam Forums and you guys may or may not have >> noticed that I update the Steam Forums server sections almost everyday. >> >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Jesse Molina<[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I prefer mailing lists, which is why I am here. Discussion and replies are >>> below: >>> >>> I prefer mailing lists because there is a small technical barrier to entry. >>> Chances are that you had to use a search engine to find it, which means >>> you >>> probably already tried to find what you were looking for via that search >>> engine and failed. Many noobs don't even know what a mailman list is, and >>> that's good. I want to talk to other people who can actually help me. This >>> mailing list is not primarily for a social experience. For most forums, a >>> significant amount of code is dedicated to smileys, avatars, signatures, >>> friends/foes, etc, because they need the social experience, because they are >>> ad-revenue driven. The amount of whitespace on web forums, compared to >>> email, is terrible. >>> >>> Here's a thought: The quality of the discussion is primarily impacted by >>> how those with authoritative knowledge (Valve employees and pros) engage in >>> the discussion. If Valve employees were more inclined to participate in >>> discussion on a web forum, I'd go web forum. I would not cry too hard if >>> this one mailing list went away. It's just games. >>> >>> About the archives: Why are they password protected, and why has my >>> password never ever worked? From day one, the password that came in my >>> welcome email didn't work and I never tried again. I have never ever >>> searched the archives because I can't. >>> >>> It is nice to have a single point of discussion for issues, as opposed to >>> many different sites and applications. As an example, I am an aquarium >>> hobbyist, and I often visit five different web forums because each has some >>> specialty, or the community is fractured up. This is annoying. This is >>> also why I don't check forums.srcds.com but once in a great while. >>> >>> I've never seen a duel-pane message board reader that worked well. I see >>> browsing message boards as messy business. I use mutt and Seamonkey as my >>> mail clients, depending on where I'm at. >>> >>> I use my android phone to check email. Checking a web forum would be >>> significantly more difficult. I would not do it, at all. I check email, >>> rss, and podcasts with my phone. Web forums are iPhone/Android unfriendly. >>> My Android client is k9mail. >>> >>> Some people brought up the issue of email spam because they fear giving out >>> the mail address. Use a spam filter. I don't get spam because I have my >>> own server with Spamassassin running. If you are using a free mail >>> provider, you get what you pay for (adverts). Business and professionals >>> use email. I wish I had more pleasant advice to give out, but that's the >>> truth. >>> >>> What about a forum that sends out email update announcements? I don't use >>> those myself, with a very few exceptions of where I really must. This is >>> mostly because most of those forums have a very low signal to noise ratio. >>> I only click on a very few threads. In other words, my participation >>> level >>> is lower with web forums. >>> >>> >>> >>> Replies: >>> >>> >>> Kigen wrote: >>>> Honestly, I don't like getting my inbox spammed with these messages. >>> That is what mail rules/filters are for. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> DarthNinja wrote: >>>> I don't like the idea of forums, because it's a passive stream of data. >>>> People have to visit to check up on topics. >>>> People are just a lot less likely to reply to things in a forum >>> environment. >>> >>> I agree. >>> >>> >>> >>> msleeper wrote: >>>> Valve, I'm sorry, but your forum population is about as dumb as >>>> facepunch, and I hope you realize it. >>> Harsh, but true. >>> >>> This is why I signed up for the mailing list. I am pro network >>> engineer/unix sysadmin, but I didn't know anything about srcds servers a >>> year ago. I needed a place where I could come to for technical help on >>> server administration related tasks. I did not come to discuss in-game >>> content issues at all -- such issues are good for the main forums. >>> >>> That being said, let's face it: More than half of the people on this >>> (linux) mailing list doesn't know what a pipe, |, does on the bash command >>> line. Their preferred editor is the pico clone nano. Just gotta put up >>> with it... or maybe even help a noob once in awhile. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Steffen Schmolinske wrote: >>>> I'd like to have a forum just for the sake of proper archives& search >>>> functions. >>> Valve is, right now, actively stopping you from having this. Ask them why >>> they are doing that. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Ryan Stecker wrote: >>>> I would love a forum. I don't think the mailing list provides any decent >>>> method of searching, >>> Again, Valve is stopping you from having this. Ask them why they are doing >>> that. Why are they taking away from you something that you would otherwise >>> have? They have deliberately password protected the archives and prevent >>> search engines from searching them. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> msleeper wrote: >>>> the main reason the list fails >>>> (and moving SPUF would only make it worse) is that most people post >>>> crap nobody needs to hear or wants to read and isn't useful. >>>> ... >>>> And guess what - we don't care about or need to hear about you telling >>>> us that. Shut up, keep your stupid opinions to yourselves, and maybe >>>> there wouldn't be a "problem" in the first place. >>> Jesse Porter wrote: >>>> The >>>> farther away from server maintenance and updates the discussion get, the >>>> less interest I have (recent discussion on classes, etc). >>> This is just the classic pros vs noobs thing. Reference ESR's Asking Smart >>> Questions, which most have not read, or even heard of. >>> >>> Because this mailing list involves video games, it has a youth and >>> stupid-noob factor -- not to be mistaken as the same issue. I don't think >>> that can be helped. A FAQ to throw at them every time they failed to google >>> it might help. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> # Jesse Molina >>> # Mail = [email protected] >>> # Page = [email protected] >>> # Cell = 1.602.323.7608 >>> # Web = >>> http://www.opendreams.net/**jesse/<http://www.opendreams.net/jesse/> >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/**mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux<http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
