So... I'm for having a forum. On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:59 AM, James Puckett < [email protected]> wrote:
> Forum = moderation. > > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:39 AM, Kigen <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I think I can fix our forum vs email problem with both sides being happy. >> :D >> >> Just got a coding idea. We'll see where it goes. >> >> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 4:37 AM, Eric Riemers <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > I prefer the mailinglist, tons of reasons why i would want that more >> then a >> > forum (ease of use being one of them) >> > >> > But if we *have* to move to the forums, at least make it so that we have >> > our own section only for server maintainers, say for instance only >> people >> > with a registered server with good standings is allowed to post there. >> > Granted it might not be bullit proof but it might keep at least 90% of >> the >> > non-relevant forum people out there. And ofcourse, assuming this has >> push >> > alerts (with full reply for ease of use?) >> > >> > On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 08:03:08 +0300, ics <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I prefer mailing list. Just because it's easy to use while reading >> >> regular e-mail and you can just pick a message to read easily, delete >> >> immediately the rest that you don't need. On forum, you have to browse >> >> around on many threads and it's very time consuming. I also hate the >> >> SPUF style where you just get post to your mail that happened after >> your >> >> reply and the messages after that are ignored untill i visit the forum >> >> again. Forums might be clean first but full of dirt later. Too many >> >> immature people there, way less here on this list. >> >> >> >> People go crazy on forums whenever someone from Valve replies, they >> want >> >> to contribute. I'ts a mess there. Benefit on forums is the the easier >> >> search and messages browsing if you prefer reading all once a week and >> >> have time to go through all the messages. The count of messages that >> >> should not be posted would rise high too. It would be harder to find >> the >> >> thing you are looking for. It's good for historians. How many people >> >> browse old messages anyway and why? To check something or find answer? >> >> Isn't wiki for the answers better or some sort of section "how to run a >> >> server for dummies". >> >> >> >> The recent change where there's as much as ~10 people been around from >> >> Valve within a month is something i've never seen before. I thought the >> >> list would live long and the latter closing notice would have been >> >> proved wrong but i guess there is pressure to close the list down. This >> >> is way more convinient than forums. Please do not close this down. >> >> >> >> -ics >> >> >> >> >> >> 25.10.2011 7:28, Andrew kirjoitti: >> >>> What about adding some kind of easy searching to the mailing list >> >>> archives? That seems to be only commonly brought up minus to keeping >> >>> this format. >> >>> >> >>> I am able to access them (the archives) with my login, but the >> >>> standard listings by month and downloadable gzip'ed archives makes >> >>> searching nontrivial. Improving that would be a big + >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 11:24 PM, m33crob<[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>> I too would prefer to keep the mailing list. If a forum materializes >> > out >> >>>> of >> >>>> this conversation, I would be interested in becoming a moderator. I'm >> >>>> already super active in the Steam Forums and you guys may or may not >> >>>> have >> >>>> noticed that I update the Steam Forums server sections almost >> everyday. >> >>>> >> >>>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Jesse Molina<[email protected]> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> I prefer mailing lists, which is why I am here. Discussion and >> > replies >> >>>>> are >> >>>>> below: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I prefer mailing lists because there is a small technical barrier to >> >>>>> entry. >> >>>>> Chances are that you had to use a search engine to find it, which >> >>>>> means you >> >>>>> probably already tried to find what you were looking for via that >> >>>>> search >> >>>>> engine and failed. Many noobs don't even know what a mailman list >> is, >> >>>>> and >> >>>>> that's good. I want to talk to other people who can actually help >> me. >> > >> >>>>> This >> >>>>> mailing list is not primarily for a social experience. For most >> >>>>> forums, a >> >>>>> significant amount of code is dedicated to smileys, avatars, >> >>>>> signatures, >> >>>>> friends/foes, etc, because they need the social experience, because >> >>>>> they are >> >>>>> ad-revenue driven. The amount of whitespace on web forums, compared >> > to >> >>>>> email, is terrible. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Here's a thought: The quality of the discussion is primarily >> impacted >> >>>>> by >> >>>>> how those with authoritative knowledge (Valve employees and pros) >> >>>>> engage in >> >>>>> the discussion. If Valve employees were more inclined to >> participate >> >>>>> in >> >>>>> discussion on a web forum, I'd go web forum. I would not cry too >> hard >> >>>>> if >> >>>>> this one mailing list went away. It's just games. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> About the archives: Why are they password protected, and why has my >> >>>>> password never ever worked? From day one, the password that came in >> > my >> >>>>> welcome email didn't work and I never tried again. I have never >> ever >> >>>>> searched the archives because I can't. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> It is nice to have a single point of discussion for issues, as >> opposed >> >>>>> to >> >>>>> many different sites and applications. As an example, I am an >> > aquarium >> >>>>> hobbyist, and I often visit five different web forums because each >> has >> >>>>> some >> >>>>> specialty, or the community is fractured up. This is annoying. >> This >> >>>>> is >> >>>>> also why I don't check forums.srcds.com but once in a great while. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I've never seen a duel-pane message board reader that worked well. >> I >> >>>>> see >> >>>>> browsing message boards as messy business. I use mutt and Seamonkey >> > as >> >>>>> my >> >>>>> mail clients, depending on where I'm at. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I use my android phone to check email. Checking a web forum would >> be >> >>>>> significantly more difficult. I would not do it, at all. I check >> >>>>> email, >> >>>>> rss, and podcasts with my phone. Web forums are iPhone/Android >> >>>>> unfriendly. >> >>>>> My Android client is k9mail. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Some people brought up the issue of email spam because they fear >> > giving >> >>>>> out >> >>>>> the mail address. Use a spam filter. I don't get spam because I >> have >> >>>>> my >> >>>>> own server with Spamassassin running. If you are using a free mail >> >>>>> provider, you get what you pay for (adverts). Business and >> >>>>> professionals >> >>>>> use email. I wish I had more pleasant advice to give out, but >> that's >> >>>>> the >> >>>>> truth. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> What about a forum that sends out email update announcements? I >> don't >> >>>>> use >> >>>>> those myself, with a very few exceptions of where I really must. >> This >> >>>>> is >> >>>>> mostly because most of those forums have a very low signal to noise >> >>>>> ratio. >> >>>>> I only click on a very few threads. In other words, my >> > participation >> >>>>> level >> >>>>> is lower with web forums. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Replies: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Kigen wrote: >> >>>>>> Honestly, I don't like getting my inbox spammed with these >> messages. >> >>>>> That is what mail rules/filters are for. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> DarthNinja wrote: >> >>>>>> I don't like the idea of forums, because it's a passive stream of >> >>>>>> data. >> >>>>>> People have to visit to check up on topics. >> >>>>>> People are just a lot less likely to reply to things in a forum >> >>>>> environment. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I agree. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> msleeper wrote: >> >>>>>> Valve, I'm sorry, but your forum population is about as dumb as >> >>>>>> facepunch, and I hope you realize it. >> >>>>> Harsh, but true. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> This is why I signed up for the mailing list. I am pro network >> >>>>> engineer/unix sysadmin, but I didn't know anything about srcds >> servers >> >>>>> a >> >>>>> year ago. I needed a place where I could come to for technical help >> > on >> >>>>> server administration related tasks. I did not come to discuss >> > in-game >> >>>>> content issues at all -- such issues are good for the main forums. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> That being said, let's face it: More than half of the people on >> this >> >>>>> (linux) mailing list doesn't know what a pipe, |, does on the bash >> >>>>> command >> >>>>> line. Their preferred editor is the pico clone nano. Just gotta >> put >> >>>>> up >> >>>>> with it... or maybe even help a noob once in awhile. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Steffen Schmolinske wrote: >> >>>>>> I'd like to have a forum just for the sake of proper archives& >> > search >> >>>>>> functions. >> >>>>> Valve is, right now, actively stopping you from having this. Ask >> them >> >>>>> why >> >>>>> they are doing that. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Ryan Stecker wrote: >> >>>>>> I would love a forum. I don't think the mailing list provides any >> >>>>>> decent >> >>>>>> method of searching, >> >>>>> Again, Valve is stopping you from having this. Ask them why they >> are >> >>>>> doing >> >>>>> that. Why are they taking away from you something that you would >> >>>>> otherwise >> >>>>> have? They have deliberately password protected the archives and >> >>>>> prevent >> >>>>> search engines from searching them. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> msleeper wrote: >> >>>>>> the main reason the list fails >> >>>>>> (and moving SPUF would only make it worse) is that most people post >> >>>>>> crap nobody needs to hear or wants to read and isn't useful. >> >>>>>> ... >> >>>>>> And guess what - we don't care about or need to hear about you >> > telling >> >>>>>> us that. Shut up, keep your stupid opinions to yourselves, and >> maybe >> >>>>>> there wouldn't be a "problem" in the first place. >> >>>>> Jesse Porter wrote: >> >>>>>> The >> >>>>>> farther away from server maintenance and updates the discussion >> get, >> >>>>>> the >> >>>>>> less interest I have (recent discussion on classes, etc). >> >>>>> This is just the classic pros vs noobs thing. Reference ESR's >> Asking >> >>>>> Smart >> >>>>> Questions, which most have not read, or even heard of. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Because this mailing list involves video games, it has a youth and >> >>>>> stupid-noob factor -- not to be mistaken as the same issue. I don't >> >>>>> think >> >>>>> that can be helped. A FAQ to throw at them every time they failed >> to >> >>>>> google >> >>>>> it might help. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -- >> >>>>> # Jesse Molina >> >>>>> # Mail = [email protected] >> >>>>> # Page = [email protected] >> >>>>> # Cell = 1.602.323.7608 >> >>>>> # Web = >> >>>>> http://www.opendreams.net/**jesse/<http://www.opendreams.net/jesse/ >> > >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >> >>>>> please visit: >> >>>>> >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/**mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux< >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux> >> >>>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >> >>>> please visit: >> >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> >> please visit: >> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> > > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
