How bout providing a working api for them that they (SM, other plugins etc) can use, instead that they have to hackify it with offsets etc? Ppl still want to mod source games, ppl use SM for a load of stuff whats useful. Once having a API (or GPI*? or SPI**? ) and SM can use that, any new functionality would only be a upgrade away for SM, but not break older versions.
I am always reminded by the phrase "source engine is mod friendly" vs "any update will break a load of stuff" Having a [A/G/S]PI, would cover some goals: - stable plugins for the server owners, even if outdated. - mod-support with a longer life, no problems with engine upgrades etc. - easier maintenance for server owners, no need to start yelling at a plugin maker that things are broken. - less crash reports regarding undocumented hooks and other "hacks" to get things working. - better control on what is altered. altho this should not be very tight, just some stuff, mods still would need a lot of access to get things done. - plugin makers happy, cos they dont have to run behind each and every update because stuff breaks by it. - hell, i'm no programmer, you guys would prolly know a load more. If done in a dialog in plugins-makers, then I think that would be a nice feature. *GPI, Gaming Programming Interface ** SPI, Source Programming Interface, lol >________________________________ >From: Saul Rennison <[email protected]> >To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list ><[email protected]> >Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2011, 1:35 >Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Players cannot taunt or call for medic > >Here's what I've got so far msleeper: >http://pastie.org/private/v7cygkomvwkh0eeprut1a > > >Kind regards, >*Saul Rennison* > > >On 28 October 2011 22:08, msleeper <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Personally I'm staying away from "make things better for everyone by >> exposing code" arguments since I doubt it will happen, and I'm >> sticking to the "if you don't want SourceMod to be required, add in >> what it does to the core game" argument for now. >> >> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Saul Rennison <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > Abstract your gamerules and game players into interfaces (IGameRules, >> > ITFGameRules, one for each mod or gamemode and ITFPlayer, ICSPlayer, etc) >> > and expose them, that removes any need for offsets. Also expose IClient >> and >> > IServer from the engine, why are they hidden? >> > >> > I'm currently in the process of doing the former part of my suggestion >> for >> > CSProMod (just one programmer) and I plan to have it done within 2 days. >> > Minimal expense for Valve and a huge plus for plugin developers. >> > >> > >> > Kind regards, >> > *Saul Rennison* >> > >> > >> > On 28 October 2011 21:21, Henry Goffin <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >> A very interesting question! No answer for you yet, unfortunately. >> >> >> >> We don't like the fact that managing a Source server requires third >> party >> >> software. We definitely appreciate everything that SM/MM do, and we >> >> obviously don't have anything against them and we aren't breaking them >> on >> >> purpose. But we still aren't happy with the stability problems around >> >> updates, even if they're often caused by admins who don't update >> promptly >> >> and not necessarily SM's fault. We are trying to find a better long-term >> >> solution. >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: [email protected] [mailto: >> >> [email protected]] On Behalf Of msleeper >> >> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 1:11 PM >> >> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list >> >> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Players cannot taunt or call for medic >> >> >> >> Henry - >> >> >> >> Should we expect Source to include an extensive set of administrative >> >> tools in the near future then? SM / MM are third party software, yes, >> >> but they're absolutely essential in "keeping the peace" as Source's >> >> current administrative tools are nonexistent. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 4:05 PM, Henry Goffin <[email protected] >> > >> >> wrote: >> >> > Just because we haven't put out one of these reminders in a while... >> >> > >> >> > Sourcemod hooks into undocumented engine code and generally doesn't >> play >> >> well with updates. Whenever we make an engine change, Sourcemod starts >> >> calling the wrong functions. This can cause all kinds of issues ranging >> from >> >> server instability to client crashes to incorrect physics or gameplay. >> >> Usually a new Sourcemod release comes out which has reverse-engineered >> the >> >> engine changes and makes everything "work" again, but we have nothing to >> do >> >> with it. We obviously can't promise that your server will be stable or >> even >> >> work properly if you choose to run this type of engine-hooking mod. >> >> > >> >> > Lately our updates have been including more engine changes as we work >> to >> >> support new features like misc slots, loadouts, replay, holiday game >> modes, >> >> etc. This does mean that recent updates are much more likely to break >> >> Sourcemod plugins than in the past. >> >> > >> >> > We wouldn't say, "never use Sourcemod", but I'd personally caution >> >> against it unless you absolutely rely on its functionality. Our >> automated >> >> crash report tools are always flooded by sourcemod and metamod crashes >> >> whenever we release an update, and this time has been no exception. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> >> > From: [email protected] [mailto: >> >> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Andrew >> >> > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 12:37 PM >> >> > To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list >> >> > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Players cannot taunt or call for medic >> >> > >> >> > EHG, >> >> > >> >> > Huge thanks for that find! I believe it did the trick. >> >> > >> >> > May I ask where you got your updated offset values? I checked my usual >> >> > location at: http://www.sourcemodplugins.org/pages/vtableoffsets/ but >> >> > they appear to be out of date. (Last updated on Oct 21). >> >> > >> >> > If you have a better source I would greatly appreciate it! >> >> > >> >> > Thanks >> >> > -Andrew >> >> > >> >> > On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 12:32 PM, EHG <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> I ran into this same problem. It turned out to be incorrect offsets >> for >> >> the >> >> >> team balance forward. >> >> >> >> >> >> "CanBeAutobalanced" >> >> >> { >> >> >> "windows" "449" >> >> >> "linux" "450" >> >> >> } >> >> >> >> >> >> -EHG >> >> >> >> >> >> On 10/28/2011 11:05 AM, Andrew wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Since the halloween update last night, every now and then I get a >> >> >>> player complaining that they cannot taunt or call for a medic on >> >> >>> koth_viaduct_event. Has anyone else seen this? >> >> >>> >> >> >>> I cannot tell if there is a real issue here, or if I have some >> players >> >> >>> with screwed up keybindings who keep coming back. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Thanks >> >> >>> -Andrew >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >> >> >> please visit: >> >> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Andrew (Wave Admin) >> >> > The Wave! >> >> > 24/7 CTF >> >> > 1/2 respawn times >> >> > http://thewaveserver.com >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> >> please visit: >> >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> >> please visit: >> >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> >> please visit: >> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> >> please visit: >> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> >_______________________________________________ >To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please >visit: >http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
