Dave - I'm responding to your e-mail but my post is aimed at the homenet WG as a whole, because your e-mail gives me an opportunity to pull on a couple of threads from my perspective as a DT member.
You suggested installing the software. OK, I could install it on my home network, but I would gain exactly zero insight into the problem from that installation. My home network has one router, and everything inside my home is bridged. I do have native IPv6 (thanks, JohnB and Comcast) in my home, through a Linksys router with an old, internal software build from Cisco. That router waited patiently until it got a DHCPv6-PD delegation from Comcast and then silently started advertising the prefix. I didn't notice that the Comcast IPv6 service had been added to the tunnel service I was using until I happened to notice a new prefix on one of the devices on the home network. I shut down the tunnel and everything just worked...a demonstration of graceful renumbering (admittedly not a very complicated demo, but one in a real, operational network) on running code. So, as you suggest, I could go buy a couple of routers and run the software on a more complex topology. How do I decide where to put those routers so I can learn anything about the protocols? I don't ever intend to use any of my wireless as a transit link. I have a wired link up to the second floor with a switch and an AP to improve coverage on the second floor, but no redundancy so there's no advantage to adding a router in front of the switch. Where's the advantage in running a collection of self-configuring routers in my current network? OK, I could invent a new topology that might take some advantage of the routers. How do I choose that topology? What are the requirements I'm trying to test? Where do I find a couple of weeks to perform experiments? Therefore, in my estimation, I *might* learn something more than I know now by spending a significant amount of my time or my employer's time in a series of experiments using deployments of the alternative routing protocols on hypothetical network topologies and use cases. I don't see how that knowledge is going to help me solidify the requirements or answer the questions Russ talked about in his report from the DT in Prague. - Ralph > On Aug 5, 2015, at 8:48 AM 8/5/15, Dave Taht <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Ray Bellis <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> On 05/08/2015 12:44, Dave Taht wrote: >> >>> I would like to require the design team >>> >>> *to actually install the software*. >> >> Dave, >> >> We've heard you before, but with the best will in the world we cannot >> *require* IETF volunteers to put their own time and money into this. > > Stay home and save the plane fare and hotel and food expenses. > Attending a meeting costs 3k or so, plus the lost business from trying > to stay awake in futile meetings. > > That's what I've been doing. Pays for a lot of routers, that does. > Gives me time to work on the remaining real problems, also, which > include naming the ipv6 hex vomit more sanely and a multitude of other > issues this wg has dropped the ball on. > > If whoever is funding your travel is unwilling to let you expense a > couple 100 dollar (tops) routers, in addition to allowing you to waste > time attending meetings, I think they are investing in the wrong > place. > > Nobody funds my travel, and I guess, in part, that is why I am aware > of the overwhelming difference in cost between actually developing and > testing the software, vs attending meetings or putting up with the > endless bikeshed emails. > >> Heck, I can't even run the Homenet stack myself as my ISP doesn't yet >> have native IPv6 and also wants extra money to get their edge router >> running in bridge mode. > > Nearly every form of ipv6 tunneling is supported by the openwrt > software for your edge gateway. > > dslite, 6in4, aiccu, 6to4, 6rd, and gre > > are supported and have been supported *for years*. Numerous other > methods of applying a ipv6 vpn over ipv4 also exist. > > If you provider will not allow any of those through their crappy cpe, > then perhaps this wg needs to consider that as a problem for this wg? > > Sure, that first router requires some hand configuration for the > needed tunnels. Additional ones do not, and can thus be tested with > hnetd and your routing protocol of choice. > > http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/uci/network for more details as to setup. > >> >> [and no, before you suggest it, changing ISPs is *not* an option]. > > Not being able to get native ipv6 to your location is no excuse. > > >> Ray >> > > > > -- > Dave Täht > worldwide bufferbloat report: > http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/results/bufferbloat > And: > What will it take to vastly improve wifi for everyone? > https://plus.google.com/u/0/explore/makewififast > > _______________________________________________ > homenet mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet _______________________________________________ homenet mailing list [email protected] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet
