On 12/14/01 9:23 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > < - snip - > > >>> Michael is currently overseas, with limited access to >> email, so we may not >>> hear from him on this subject. >>> > > Combining responses here. One of the reasons I pointed this out was that > Michael is the official project manager, and is the principle of the HSQLdb > Development Group, Inc., as well as the holder of hsqldb.org. Without his > cooperation, you may be forced to start another project. That may be the case as it is certainly a point of contention with me. The code base was taken in its entirety from Thomas Mueller and there really hasn't been any significant changes in the code and there certainly hasn't been much in the way of leadership despite all good intentions. Speaking with Thomas Mueller I know that he can't participate in the development of the new project he is really the principle of anything to do with hsqldb. How is it that a single person becomes the principle of an open source project that precluded the involvement of all other developers from the direction of the project? I have spoken with numerous developers who have had an interested and have been discouraged by either the lack of response or lack of direction. In all of this discussion you are the only one that has really forwarded anything of worth to the discussion about the future of hsqldb. Michael or Fred haven't said anything and if you are the 'principle' of a project you should make sure that you are available. Is the entire project supposed to stop because a single person doesn't have access to email? Having a single person in control of a project is a serious bottleneck. I certainly do not have all the facts as to how the HSQLdb Development Group formed with a principle based on freely available code but it sounds somewhat dubious to me. This project will certainly not move forward with a principle that has yet to comment on any of the discussions going on and a principle who can't find the time to get email access. Even given the current situation where Michael may be indisposed none of the design issue that you have mentioned were cohesively collected for public review. >> This is yet another reason for stabilizing the current code >> base while possibly >> moving onto another architecture. > > A lot of people surveyed were using HypersonicSQL/HSQLdb in applets. I was. > The number of people using it's server or servlet modes was quite low > initially. That was the reason for introducing the idea of a more modular > design, where you could 'roll your own' at compilation time so to speak. > > Much of what I see being discussed is not stabilizing the code, Discussions of the past or present? Right from the start I advocated a testbed which I have created because in the eight months since the code was taken from Thomas Mueller there hasn't been the hint of one being made. I definitely want to stabilze the code that is the one of the first steps toward being able to make any serious changes. The testbed will ensure that we haven't broken anything. I haven't been talking about major surgery. > but some > fairly major surgery that I don't believe will be possible without having > severe impact on performance, however time will tell. A number of submitted > patches had side effects. I believe Fred and Mike were looking at these as > time allowed. Yes, again a severe bottleneck. A testbed coupled with a meritocracy helps things a great deal. >> >> Come on... there is no excuse for working outside of CVS. >> If you are outside of CVS, you are outside of the project. :( >> If you can not use CVS on your network, get on another network. >> Besides. CVS at sourceforge uses SSH not HTTP. > > Sure there is. Not in an open source project. > This was a hobby project for me, graciously permitted by my > employer. I can't access CVS at Sourceforge from here. I will never > believe that putting an empty tree in CVS and working in plain site would > have done anything other than generate annoyances for me. Again this is not a very open source way of thinking. Any sort of design document or jottings are helpful to people looking at the project. It's is definitely nice to have a working codebase, but time rarely permits this. Case in point, I have been redesigning Turbine at Jakarta for quite some time. It's taken a lot longer than I expected but I keep my notes in CVS and though it sometimes generates a lot of questions I don't mind answering them. It's helps spread information about the project's future. > Better to wait > until I could submit a reasonably complete structure. Remember, it was not a > matter of rewriting, it started with a blank screen. Get on another > network? Let's see, I'll throw away a career with a measure of industry > respect, a nice salary, good options package, etc. so that I can get on a > more open network connection to give away my work. Right... Obviously the project wasn't a priority and that's perfectly fine but it should have been stated as such. >> Constructive feedback is very important if you plan a >> rewrite. MORE important >> than the code base we are working on because peer review is >> important in this >> process. > > I agree, however based on what I have seen, I don't think most of the > participants in that public discussion would contribute more than noise, > database theory is out of reach for most code slingers. What? What kind of attitude is that? You have no idea the access to people some of us have. So intead of asking the community you assume you are working with a bunch of people who you feel are unqualified? That's an attitude that will run the project into the ground. I will write a proposal to the group so we can decide what to do. The project is definitely in need of some help and it appears that most of the people who have contributed are in favor of some changes to help get this project going again. -- jvz. Jason van Zyl http://tambora.zenplex.org http://jakarta.apache.org/turbine http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity http://jakarta.apache.org/alexandria http://jakarta.apache.org/commons _______________________________________________ hsqldb-developers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hsqldb-developers
