The following is the reply to Jason's response to my post on Project Guidelines. I find most of what Jason is discussing irrelevent to my post which deals with the development of the code. As I made it clear in the original post and repeat it here, I am interested in the development of the codebase and won't be sidetracked into license and other peripheral issues.
> Mark stated that he is no longer interested in the project. The statement is > made here in this message: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/hsqldb-developers%40lists.sourceforge.net/msg000 > 01.html > > This new codebase is not in CVS and he wanted to be removed from the project > so where is this new codebase? Mark discussed and worked on it while on the project and I am hopeful that he will contribute it. In any case I just mentioned it for completeness and did not draw any conclusions regarding that codebase. > > 2. Efforts to modularise and rework the current codebase to overhaul JDBC > > and other functionality. These are mainly led by Campbell but recently we > > had contributions from Hiep and Clay. > > Could you summarize these efforts for the group. Or post links to the > webform entries? I think we are all interested in the details. I summarised them in one sentence. I cannot spoonfeed links to information that is in the forums and the patch list. Follow the Open Discussion Forum, Roadmap Forum and the Patch List and find the names I mentioned. > > 3. Efforts to fix the bugs and improve SQL and JDBC compliance in small > > areas. These are led by myself based on contributions from many users and > > developers. Mauricio will be helping to ensure JDK 1.1.x compliance and > > hopefully contribute code as well. > > I believe that JB also has some contributions in this area as well. Of course when I said "contributions from many users" it includes Jim whom I personally welcomed to the project. The patch that I mentioned in the Guidelines is actually his. > > Just keep in mind while writing the proposal that the current > > HSQLDB is not really a GNU-type project, where you are forced to contribute > > changes back to the community. I understand from looking at the forum posts > > that many developers use this code as part of a larger commercial project, > > and there has to be a way for them to contribute changes back to the > > community if they desire to do so. > > ---end quote > > > > The above has always been a main consideration in the development and > > maintenance of the Hypersonic into HSQLDB code. > > With the modified apache style license that was originally set forth by > Thomas Mueller has always made this possible. I know the license makes it possible, but I'm not discussing the license. It is the implications of the above for the management of the developement effort that I'm interested in. > I think you should also include the meritocracy guidelines that have been > discussed on the mailing list and the use of the mailing list should be > stated in the guidelines. By generally following the Jakarta guidelines you > can simply point people to these documents: > > http://jakarta.apache.org/site/guidelines.html > > In this message I also outlined a proposal which many people took the time > to answer: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/hsqldb-developers%40lists.sourceforge.net/msg000 > 26.html > > How do you intend to incorporate those into the guidelines. Namely i), ii) > and iii) in the above mentioned proposal. Don't you read the posts to this list? I have made my position clear re mailing lists (ii) in two posts. Only the CVS aspect (iii) is related to what I was discussing (code development). The development of the project will dictate the organisation of CSV, not the other way around. I think we agreed to finish setting up a new module with all the existing releases and patches and see how it works before making further decisions. As far as meritocracy is concerned, it is not directly related and should be formulated in a different document. But since you asked, here is the my take: People who have been running the project from its inception are in the position of the committers in Apache projects. Contributors will be promoted if they show dedication, in a fashion similar to the Apache projects (case in point, I did not have my current position from the beginning). > In that same document, outstanding are some answers to some very serious > questions. I caution anyone participating in the project to take note of the > answers provided for i) and ii). Namely what is HSQL Development Group, how > the license has changed and why? > > I will point out that original hsql (http://hsql.sourceforge.net) site has > changed to state clearly the licensing terms of the original project which > is a license that clearly states that the code is copyright "Hypersonic SQL > Group". Developers please look carefully at the license currently listed in > the source. It now states a copyright of "HSQL Development Group". > > I know that Thomas Mueller did not give his permission to change the license > unless someone knows something I don't. So in essence what has happened is > illegal. It is not that it can't be easily corrected in the source, the > issue is how did it happen in the first place? > > Mark mentioned that Michael Cannon is the 'principle' of the HSQL > Development Group (whatever that is). So in effect, the license changed > magically and Michael Cannon somehow became the principle of this group, and > it has also been mentioned by Mark that we should wait for Michael to > reappear before we decide anything. To me this is absurd. These are things > that have been stated on the list in the past few days and they can be found > in the mail archive. Again I urge you to scrutinize the facts carefully. > What has been done is not right. You can't just up and change the license of > a codebase. > I certainly don't believe it is in anyway rude or presumptuous to demand the > answers to these questions. Do you really want to contribute your code to a > project where these issues are left unanswered? I did not set out to discuss or explain licence issues and will not do so now. Your reference to it in this thread is OT. Re being rude or presumptuous, please bear in mind that you enquired on this list about the licence on 31 October and got a response from Michael Cannon on 12 November. Subsequently, you were in email correspondence with Michael and myself regarding who runs the project and how. If you were not satisfied with the answer to the licence issue which you consider so important, how come you offered to help with the documents and CVS on 27-29 November and asked to become a developer in the project. You and other contributors are entitled to have a continued interest in license issues but it cannot be allowed to disrupt the progress of the project. > Other facts to mention is that there was originally no discussion that I can > find about the guidelines for the project when it started. Eight months into > the project is not the point at which we should be mandating guidelines. Development guidelines are necessary because we need to manage the new contributions effectively. These contribution did not exist 8 months ago and are a mark of the success of our project. I need to allow the diverse contributions and developments that are currently being made to bear fruit. Fred Toussi _______________________________________________ hsqldb-developers mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hsqldb-developers
