> -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Edward Jaffe > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 5:49 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Workable Mainframe Debuggers > > Farley, Peter x23353 wrote: > > I probably should have added the phrase "available to the application > > programmer". And yes, most of the MVS sites at which I worked used > > ignorance and information hiding to do it. Plus a little attitude -- > > "Real programmers only use SYSUDUMP" kind of attidude. > > > > C'mon, Dude! I came up as an application programmer in a prominent > Southern California bank back in the 1980s. Our sysprogs -- full > disclosure: Skip Robinson from SCE was one of them -- did their jobs; we > did ours. They didn't teach us about how to use TSO/E commands, how to > use ISPF, or how to use/manage any of the other myriad MVS batch and > online programs and facilities that we could run. We simply read the > manuals to learn. > > In those days, we ordered paper manuals. There was only so much space in > your cubicle and the books were not ultra cheap. I suppose, if one > ordered an IPCS manual, it's conceivable your manager *might* ask, "What > do you need that for?" We also had a library with shelves full of > manuals we could all share. > > (FYI: I purchased "G" and "S" manuals directly from IBM for my own > collection at home. It was purely my choice which ones to buy. I spent a > fortune on them! :-$ ) > > I doubt the sysprogs of today are any more interested in teaching > application programmers how to use TSO/E than they were 25 years ago. > Application programmers must still read manuals to learn how to use the > system. And, these days, manuals are available for free, via the > Internet, covering every imaginable aspect of z/OS! > > I'd like to know just how evil, 21st-century, Darth-Vader-like sysprogs > use "ignorance and information hiding" to prevent application > programmers from knowing anything about IPCS. IPCS is just as easy a > command to type as ISPF and the doc is as freely available as it is for > any other built-in command or facility that runs under z/OS! (That is, > unless the sysprogs are censoring the Internet!) > > I suggest a more reasonable explanation is that the application > programmers *themselves* are avoiding IPCS!!!! > > > In any case, I've never been privileged to learn it or use it. > > > > It's never too late! ;-)
A problem is that many applications programmers are to busy, or don't care enough for such exploration and manual reading. At least some of those who do have such an inclination or "the knack", well, they used to become systems programmers :) > > -- > Edward E Jaffe > Phoenix Software International, Inc > 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 > Los Angeles, CA 90045 > 310-338-0400 x318 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
