My 2 cents.
Because of NDAs, I can't ID the programs, but there are some huge
programs that are written in REXX, used in the z/OS world that
are maintained via SMP/E.
I know that one of them is doing VSAM, and one is doing
encryption/decryption and handling of Certificates and gets
called to respond for hand-shaking for IP connections and last I
knew, had to be upgraded for the various crypto "cards" for
z/13-z15s. This last one, off the top of my head, was 23,000+
lines, with very few comments -- and that was when I worked on it
back under z/OS 1.10(?)-1.13.
IMS was a pain to gen and install back in the early '80s -- if
you mangled its RTM Exit, you would fail the IPL during NIP. I
learned some of this while on a contract with McAuto. And I wrote
stuff in their specialized language for IMS. And I've done it for
CICS v2(?) on DOS/VSE with DL/1 or I (I forgot which). And then I
was given IMS' RTM Exit to use for an IBM AI language system so
we could handle problems just like IMS DB/DC (recognize user
address spaces that went away). Yeah, I wrote the subsystem
interface(s) and the cross memory communications, and SVC for an
AI product.
But, if needed, I could write REXX to do processing of a data
base. GU, GN, etc. I don't remember all the Gets and was it put
or write... I've done REXX interface code so it could be used to
do other stuff.
Let me see, OPS/MVS as I recall, did Object processing or
tracking of STCs, so it could manage them during automated
startup/shutdown. During the processing day, it could tell if
they were up or down, or needed to be brought back up, etc. And
if I remember correctly, all of that was developed in REXX. The
equivalent was also done with Boole & Babbage's AutoOperator (I
have forgotten the capitalization of that) using REXX as well if
I remember that correctly (I wrote the regression testing
system's rules using REXX). This stuff was not trivial.
You should get on a z/VM system and look at the stuff there in
REXX and PIPELINES. I just wish I had the time to learn enough
to be a plumber -- amazing what you can do with stages.....
Just thought you could use some knowledge of other people who
have worked in development for many many years. And have done
more than write a 40 line REXX program.
ISPW -- I think, if I remember correctly, it uses ISPF SKELs and
REXX to gen compile JOBs. It was used at a client's shop to
replace the REXX compile tool I took over and upgraded for COBOL
6.2, c, ++ and changes to CICS, DB2, ProCOBOL, IDMS, and some
other stuff.
Yep, REXX gets used for a lot of complicated things.
Regards,
Steve Thompson
On 8/22/21 4:53 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
Any programming language can be complex. The problems I’ve had to solve in my
40 year career were far more complex as a programmer than as a SP, DBA, DASD
Admin, Security Admin.
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On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 4:40 PM, David Spiegel <[email protected]>
wrote:
Hi Bill,
I understood that you were defending IBM patents and thank you for the
compliment.
Why, though, do you think that COBOL programs with Database calls can be
complex, when the languages I mentioned are more "dense" (i.e. logic per
keystroke) with or without the Database calls?
(PL/I and Rexx are very close in density. If you agree that large PL/I
programs can be complex, then why can Rexx not also be complex?)
Regards,
David
On 2021-08-22 16:16, Bill Johnson wrote:
Dude, you can’t even figure out I’m on YOUR side. When I posted a few months
back regarding IBM patents, a whole bunch of listers bashed me and claimed most
of IBMs patents were worthless. I’m impressed that you have patented code.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 4:13 PM, David Spiegel <[email protected]>
wrote:
Hi Bill,
Are you just a troll, or, are you really that impolite/ignorant?
My Rexx patented program was reviewed by the US Patent office and I was
required to defend it against 5 others.
It took 9 calendar months from the start of application until granting
of patent.
There are reasons why IBM leads the world in patents, BUT, they still
have to pass muster regardless.
What makes you think, nitwit, that programming 10,000 lines of COBOL (,
which, BTW is freaking wordy beyond belief) is more mind bending than Rexx?
If you would've coded 10,000 lines of PL/I, FORTRAN or (especially)
APL, that would've contained a lot more logic than your "essay" with all
of the attendant COBOL nonsense.
Regards,
David
On 2021-08-22 13:35, Bill Johnson wrote:
I seem to remember IBM listers poo pooing patents when I pointed out IBM leads
the world in patents every year. Comparing a 40 line REXX/CLIST “program” to a
10,000 line IMS/COBOL program that scans a parts database is an absolute joke.
Patent or not.
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On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 6:15 AM, David Spiegel <[email protected]>
wrote:
Hi Bill,
"... "Programming” in REXX, CLIST, and similar types of languages is
hardly programming. ..."
Maybe you should tell that to the US Patent Office in Washington, DC.
They can then invalidate my patent retroactively.
Please see:
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpatents.justia.com%2Fpatent%2F8261255&data=04%7C01%7C%7C1abf00ca323340b3569208d965a9d1fd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637652602401866279%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=l2QtKunARAvX7Dl9cpFUMOCFzkIeMwHUT5aOMULOdEk%3D&reserved=0
Regards,
David
On 2021-08-21 21:51, Bill Johnson wrote:
“Programming” in REXX, CLIST, and similar types of languages is hardly
programming. Real programming is hundreds or thousands of lines of COBOL, with
IMS, DB2, or CICS calls. I was pretty damn good too. Started off in COBOL/IMS 4
decades ago. Did a little bit of COBOL/CICS and quite a bit of COBOL/DB2 later.
Try putting together the necessary code to drill down a hierarchical database
like IMS.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Saturday, August 21, 2021, 9:31 PM, Bob Bridges <[email protected]>
wrote:
This part of the thread got me thinking. How often do you write a program that
works right the first time, with no compile or execution errors? I'm not
talking about two-liners, of course, or even ten-liners; let's say 30 or
thereabouts. Please specify the language, too, since it seems to me they vary
in error-prone-ness.
I've done it occasionally, but by "occasionally" I mean "less than one time in
twenty"; maybe much less, I'm not sure, and only once in my life when anyone was watching.
That was in PL/C; mostly nowadays I write in REXX and VBA.
In fact my REXXes typically start out with at least ten or fifteen lines of boilerplate,
and any VBA/Excel program likely relies on a raft of common functions and/or objects that
are part of my regular library, so when I say "30 lines", some of those lines
don't really count.
---
Bob Bridges, [email protected], cell 336 382-7313
/* The schools of ancient morality had four cardinal virtues: justice in human
relations, prudence in the directions of affairs, fortitude in bearing trouble
or sorrow, temperance or self-restraint. But they knew nothing of mercy or
forgiveness, which is not natural to the human heart. Forgiveness is an exotic,
which Christ brought with Him from Heaven. -F.B.Meyer */
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Tom
Brennan
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 13:41
....one of my other supervisors/teachers would tell me about her application
experience. She said no matter how complex her COBOL programs were, they would
not only compile first time but would run perfectly. This of course was due to
her rigorous desk-checking which I assume took days.
I remember thinking "that's crazy" but I just kept quiet. I'll give her a
break because that could have been at the time of card punching where such desk-checking
made far more sense.
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