That's fine and all, but what does this have to do with the 2020 election, Democrats, and Republicans?
On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 8:39 PM Steve Thompson <[email protected]> wrote: > My 2 cents. > > Because of NDAs, I can't ID the programs, but there are some huge > programs that are written in REXX, used in the z/OS world that > are maintained via SMP/E. > > I know that one of them is doing VSAM, and one is doing > encryption/decryption and handling of Certificates and gets > called to respond for hand-shaking for IP connections and last I > knew, had to be upgraded for the various crypto "cards" for > z/13-z15s. This last one, off the top of my head, was 23,000+ > lines, with very few comments -- and that was when I worked on it > back under z/OS 1.10(?)-1.13. > > IMS was a pain to gen and install back in the early '80s -- if > you mangled its RTM Exit, you would fail the IPL during NIP. I > learned some of this while on a contract with McAuto. And I wrote > stuff in their specialized language for IMS. And I've done it for > CICS v2(?) on DOS/VSE with DL/1 or I (I forgot which). And then I > was given IMS' RTM Exit to use for an IBM AI language system so > we could handle problems just like IMS DB/DC (recognize user > address spaces that went away). Yeah, I wrote the subsystem > interface(s) and the cross memory communications, and SVC for an > AI product. > > But, if needed, I could write REXX to do processing of a data > base. GU, GN, etc. I don't remember all the Gets and was it put > or write... I've done REXX interface code so it could be used to > do other stuff. > > Let me see, OPS/MVS as I recall, did Object processing or > tracking of STCs, so it could manage them during automated > startup/shutdown. During the processing day, it could tell if > they were up or down, or needed to be brought back up, etc. And > if I remember correctly, all of that was developed in REXX. The > equivalent was also done with Boole & Babbage's AutoOperator (I > have forgotten the capitalization of that) using REXX as well if > I remember that correctly (I wrote the regression testing > system's rules using REXX). This stuff was not trivial. > > You should get on a z/VM system and look at the stuff there in > REXX and PIPELINES. I just wish I had the time to learn enough > to be a plumber -- amazing what you can do with stages..... > > Just thought you could use some knowledge of other people who > have worked in development for many many years. And have done > more than write a 40 line REXX program. > > ISPW -- I think, if I remember correctly, it uses ISPF SKELs and > REXX to gen compile JOBs. It was used at a client's shop to > replace the REXX compile tool I took over and upgraded for COBOL > 6.2, c, ++ and changes to CICS, DB2, ProCOBOL, IDMS, and some > other stuff. > > Yep, REXX gets used for a lot of complicated things. > > Regards, > Steve Thompson > > On 8/22/21 4:53 PM, Bill Johnson wrote: > > Any programming language can be complex. The problems I’ve had to solve > in my 40 year career were far more complex as a programmer than as a SP, > DBA, DASD Admin, Security Admin. > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > > > > On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 4:40 PM, David Spiegel < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hi Bill, > > I understood that you were defending IBM patents and thank you for the > > compliment. > > > > Why, though, do you think that COBOL programs with Database calls can be > > complex, when the languages I mentioned are more "dense" (i.e. logic per > > keystroke) with or without the Database calls? > > (PL/I and Rexx are very close in density. If you agree that large PL/I > > programs can be complex, then why can Rexx not also be complex?) > > > > Regards, > > David > > > > On 2021-08-22 16:16, Bill Johnson wrote: > >> Dude, you can’t even figure out I’m on YOUR side. When I posted a few > months back regarding IBM patents, a whole bunch of listers bashed me and > claimed most of IBMs patents were worthless. I’m impressed that you have > patented code. > >> > >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > >> > >> > >> On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 4:13 PM, David Spiegel < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Bill, > >> Are you just a troll, or, are you really that impolite/ignorant? > >> > >> My Rexx patented program was reviewed by the US Patent office and I was > >> required to defend it against 5 others. > >> It took 9 calendar months from the start of application until granting > >> of patent. > >> There are reasons why IBM leads the world in patents, BUT, they still > >> have to pass muster regardless. > >> > >> What makes you think, nitwit, that programming 10,000 lines of COBOL (, > >> which, BTW is freaking wordy beyond belief) is more mind bending than > Rexx? > >> If you would've coded 10,000 lines of PL/I, FORTRAN or (especially) > >> APL, that would've contained a lot more logic than your "essay" with all > >> of the attendant COBOL nonsense. > >> > >> Regards, > >> David > >> > >> On 2021-08-22 13:35, Bill Johnson wrote: > >>> I seem to remember IBM listers poo pooing patents when I pointed out > IBM leads the world in patents every year. Comparing a 40 line REXX/CLIST > “program” to a 10,000 line IMS/COBOL program that scans a parts database is > an absolute joke. Patent or not. > >>> > >>> > >>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sunday, August 22, 2021, 6:15 AM, David Spiegel < > [email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Bill, > >>> "... "Programming” in REXX, CLIST, and similar types of languages is > >>> hardly programming. ..." > >>> > >>> Maybe you should tell that to the US Patent Office in Washington, DC. > >>> They can then invalidate my patent retroactively. > >>> > >>> Please see: > >>> > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpatents.justia.com%2Fpatent%2F8261255&data=04%7C01%7C%7C1abf00ca323340b3569208d965a9d1fd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637652602401866279%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=l2QtKunARAvX7Dl9cpFUMOCFzkIeMwHUT5aOMULOdEk%3D&reserved=0 > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> David > >>> > >>> On 2021-08-21 21:51, Bill Johnson wrote: > >>>> “Programming” in REXX, CLIST, and similar types of languages is > hardly programming. Real programming is hundreds or thousands of lines of > COBOL, with IMS, DB2, or CICS calls. I was pretty damn good too. Started > off in COBOL/IMS 4 decades ago. Did a little bit of COBOL/CICS and quite a > bit of COBOL/DB2 later. Try putting together the necessary code to drill > down a hierarchical database like IMS. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Saturday, August 21, 2021, 9:31 PM, Bob Bridges < > [email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> This part of the thread got me thinking. How often do you write a > program that works right the first time, with no compile or execution > errors? I'm not talking about two-liners, of course, or even ten-liners; > let's say 30 or thereabouts. Please specify the language, too, since it > seems to me they vary in error-prone-ness. > >>>> > >>>> I've done it occasionally, but by "occasionally" I mean "less than > one time in twenty"; maybe much less, I'm not sure, and only once in my > life when anyone was watching. That was in PL/C; mostly nowadays I write > in REXX and VBA. > >>>> > >>>> In fact my REXXes typically start out with at least ten or fifteen > lines of boilerplate, and any VBA/Excel program likely relies on a raft of > common functions and/or objects that are part of my regular library, so > when I say "30 lines", some of those lines don't really count. > >>>> > >>>> --- > >>>> Bob Bridges, [email protected], cell 336 382-7313 > >>>> > >>>> /* The schools of ancient morality had four cardinal virtues: justice > in human relations, prudence in the directions of affairs, fortitude in > bearing trouble or sorrow, temperance or self-restraint. But they knew > nothing of mercy or forgiveness, which is not natural to the human heart. > Forgiveness is an exotic, which Christ brought with Him from Heaven. > -F.B.Meyer */ > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On > Behalf Of Tom Brennan > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 13:41 > >>>> > >>>> ....one of my other supervisors/teachers would tell me about her > application experience. She said no matter how complex her COBOL programs > were, they would not only compile first time but would run perfectly. This > of course was due to her rigorous desk-checking which I assume took days. > >>>> > >>>> I remember thinking "that's crazy" but I just kept quiet. I'll give > her a break because that could have been at the time of card punching where > such desk-checking made far more sense. > >>>> > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >>>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO > IBM-MAIN > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >>>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO > IBM-MAIN > >>>> . > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >>> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > >>> . > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >> send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > >> . > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
