[Default] On 27 Mar 2020 08:35:35 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
[email protected] (Farley, Peter x23353) wrote:

>Peter,
>
>IBM may have made that decision about SYSABEND and SYSUDUMP 20 years ago, and 
>perhaps z/OS systems programmers who pay attention have been aware of it since 
>then, but as an application programmer during that entire time I never saw 
>that decision communicated in any form from either IBM or from my employer's 
>systems programming team.

Is the a system way to equate SYSABEND and SYSUDUMP to SYSMDUMP such
that JCL pointing to the first two automatically is changed internally
to point to the latter.  Obviously a JES2 exit 6 can do it.  If this
is done, can people read the SYSMDUMP as "easily" as SYSUDUMP?

Clark Morris
>
>So yes, there really are many application programmers out in the world who are 
>not aware of that decision.  And I  suspect that many management teams are not 
>aware of it as well.
>
>The digression concerning debuggers was in the sense of having an alternative 
>to any need for dump reading in the first place.  A competent interactive 
>debugger can usually (though not always) substitute for post-abend dump 
>reading, at least during development and unit testing.  Production abend 
>debugging is a different situation entirely of course.  There are ISV 
>solutions (Abend-Aid, Symdump, etc.) of varying levels of quality and 
>usefulness, but I am not aware whether any of them supports storage above the 
>bar, though of course they really should now that EntCOBOL V6.3 is available.
>
>Switching to SYSMDUMP for future 64-bit batch application dumps in production 
>jobs will also involve the Storage and Operations teams at a company, since 
>provision for storing (and perhaps keeping archives of) SYSMDUMP files for 
>resolving hard-to-find errors will certainly require increased and perhaps 
>even dedicated disk space and archival rules.  Operations teams will need 
>instruction and guidance from the Storage teams about what to do when / if 
>SYSMDUMP disk space is filled up and the application team hasn't got a valid 
>dump to interpret.  These are not trivial (or cheap) processes and procedures 
>to put into place in large organizations.
>
>And yes, application programmer training is needed, and that is not a trivial 
>(or cheap) effort whether instructor-led or self-paced "learn it yourself" 
>courses.  At the very least a company has to provide its programmers 
>on-the-job time to do the "self-paced" learning exercise and factor that time 
>into already tight project schedules.
>
>IMHO, as IBM begins to provide and promote the use of 64-bit application 
>programming it really ought to make a concerted effort to make customer 
>management teams aware of these needs so that they do not come as a surprise.  
>In my experience, management teams rarely appreciate technical surprises.
>
>Peter
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On Behalf Of 
>Peter Relson
>Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 8:41 AM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: 64-bit application dump analysis [was: RE: Problems with ESTAEX 
>invoked in AMODE 64 . . . ]
>
>EXTERNAL EMAIL
>
>As Tom Marchant in effect said, the z/OS answer to the question of what to use 
>for dump analysis of application dumps is SYSMDUMP (or TDUMP). And it has been 
>for a long time. And yes it takes IPCS to use it.  The decision to leave 
>SYSABEND and SYSUDUMP processing alone with respect to 64-bit storage was made 
>20 years ago.
>So why this is new news to you, I have no idea.
>
>I cannot speak with respect to shops that restrict necessary tools 
>unnecessarily. 
>
>A "debugger", however, is not typically thought of as a "dump 
>reader/analyzer". 
>
>Peter Relson
>z/OS Core Technology Design
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