Peter,

IBM may have made that decision about SYSABEND and SYSUDUMP 20 years ago, and 
perhaps z/OS systems programmers who pay attention have been aware of it since 
then, but as an application programmer during that entire time I never saw that 
decision communicated in any form from either IBM or from my employer's systems 
programming team.

So yes, there really are many application programmers out in the world who are 
not aware of that decision.  And I  suspect that many management teams are not 
aware of it as well.

The digression concerning debuggers was in the sense of having an alternative 
to any need for dump reading in the first place.  A competent interactive 
debugger can usually (though not always) substitute for post-abend dump 
reading, at least during development and unit testing.  Production abend 
debugging is a different situation entirely of course.  There are ISV solutions 
(Abend-Aid, Symdump, etc.) of varying levels of quality and usefulness, but I 
am not aware whether any of them supports storage above the bar, though of 
course they really should now that EntCOBOL V6.3 is available.

Switching to SYSMDUMP for future 64-bit batch application dumps in production 
jobs will also involve the Storage and Operations teams at a company, since 
provision for storing (and perhaps keeping archives of) SYSMDUMP files for 
resolving hard-to-find errors will certainly require increased and perhaps even 
dedicated disk space and archival rules.  Operations teams will need 
instruction and guidance from the Storage teams about what to do when / if 
SYSMDUMP disk space is filled up and the application team hasn't got a valid 
dump to interpret.  These are not trivial (or cheap) processes and procedures 
to put into place in large organizations.

And yes, application programmer training is needed, and that is not a trivial 
(or cheap) effort whether instructor-led or self-paced "learn it yourself" 
courses.  At the very least a company has to provide its programmers on-the-job 
time to do the "self-paced" learning exercise and factor that time into already 
tight project schedules.

IMHO, as IBM begins to provide and promote the use of 64-bit application 
programming it really ought to make a concerted effort to make customer 
management teams aware of these needs so that they do not come as a surprise.  
In my experience, management teams rarely appreciate technical surprises.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On Behalf Of 
Peter Relson
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2020 8:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 64-bit application dump analysis [was: RE: Problems with ESTAEX 
invoked in AMODE 64 . . . ]

EXTERNAL EMAIL

As Tom Marchant in effect said, the z/OS answer to the question of what to use 
for dump analysis of application dumps is SYSMDUMP (or TDUMP). And it has been 
for a long time. And yes it takes IPCS to use it.  The decision to leave 
SYSABEND and SYSUDUMP processing alone with respect to 64-bit storage was made 
20 years ago.
So why this is new news to you, I have no idea.

I cannot speak with respect to shops that restrict necessary tools 
unnecessarily. 

A "debugger", however, is not typically thought of as a "dump reader/analyzer". 

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design
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