I think your reading more into my comments that I put there. I pointed one specific case of DNS, it was not a generality or implied that you or anyone doesn't not know what they are doing. I that case they clearly did not. We had to hire a contractor to help because the GUI was not available for them to work, these where MSCE trained people, who should know. And please no Microsoft bashes about that from anyone. My point is for an OS a GUI DOES Hide what is happening behind the buttons, that is a GUI's Point. To make like easier. But as an OS person we should know what that button Does as you stated.
My Original Comment on this whole thing was the a 3270 Emulator really is not a GUI. It is a text based implementation on a GUI desktop, that does not make it a GUI, your still typing commands. So If I said In general all those who use gui's and do not have the correct background and who do not read about their product and take time to explore, to look at logs to see the effect and so on is that specific enough? We live in a world where we generalize, it's up to the people to decide if that applies to them personally or not. If your or anyone was offended I'm sorry you mistook my words that way. William 'Doug' Carroll -----Original Message----- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 4:15 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: The old VM/ESA CMS GUI - Does it still live? And then you have someone like me who finds typing to be burdensome due to a physical condition. If I had a GUI to manage the operating system, I would welcome it. One point I was making is that saying or implying that because someone prefers a GUI, they do not know what they are doing is a generality that has exceptions and is offensive. One can know how to do something using primitives and simply choose an easier method. It happens all of the time. It is why we have tools like Rexx and CMS Pipelines, for instance. I am familiar with machine instructions, but I do not write programs using them. The closest I have ever come to it (post IBM 601 days) is using Assembler. Does that make me stupid or a bad person? Does that imply that I don't know what I am doing? I think not. As for your example of the DNS admins, they should know their limits as well as their abilities. Rule number 1 applies - if you do not know what a command does, do not enter it; if you do not know what clicking on an icon does, do not click it. If you do not know how to do something, read the manual or help files or ask someone who does know. If you go beyond your limits, be prepared to pay the price. The same can be said of every user from end user to admin (including DNS admin); from system operator to systems programmer. I would rather have someone ask very basic questions than do something they shouldn't, something that causes harm to themselves or others, for lack of asking. Regards, Richard Schuh > -----Original Message----- > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of William D Carroll > Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 10:32 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: The old VM/ESA CMS GUI - Does it still live? > > I think we can safely assume that since this discussion was > about VM CMS that we're talking operating systems and > interfaces to those OS's not applications as is your wife's > case GUI's have their place, I personally do not believe > that place is in an OS to manage it or it's subsystems where > understanding what happens is very important. > > I know DNS admins who can't manage their servers without GUI's. > That to me is ridiculous and are admins who need to > understand more about what they manage. Are they more > productive maybe, are they dangerous, I leave that to you > Think of this, what happens to those admins if their gui > breaks and all they have is command line. > > > William 'Doug' Carroll > > > -----Original Message----- > From: The IBM z/VM Operating System > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Schuh, Richard > Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 12:54 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: The old VM/ESA CMS GUI - Does it still live? > > That is an assumption or opinion, not necessarily a fact. For > example, my wife may not know the operating system line mode > commands, but she certainly knows the accounting systems that > she uses via a GUI interface. In fact, the GUI represents an > increase in productivity. > > I would suggest that if you do not know what you are doing, > then you should not use either interface; if you do know, you > should use whatever interface you choose. Rule Number 1 (Know > what you are doing) applies. > > Regards, > Richard Schuh > > > > > > > You still type in your 3270 emulator, you still have to know > > what you're doing. GUI's hide that from you > > > > Doug > > > This communication is for informational purposes only. It is > not intended as an offer or solicitation for the purchase or > sale of any financial instrument or as an official > confirmation of any transaction. All market prices, data and > other information are not warranted as to completeness or > accuracy and are subject to change without notice. Any > comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect > those of JPMorgan Chase & Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates. > > This transmission may contain information that is privileged, > confidential, legally privileged, and/or exempt from > disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, > copying, distribution, or use of the information contained > herein (including any reliance > thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Although this transmission > and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or > other defect that might affect any computer system into which > it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the > recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no > responsibility is accepted by JPMorgan Chase & Co., its > subsidiaries and affiliates, as applicable, for any loss or > damage arising in any way from its use. If you received this > transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender > and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in > electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. > > Please refer to http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures for > disclosures relating to European legal entities. >
