Judy:
I'm sorry if I'm getting you riled up. My intention in joining this list
was to monitor what owners are saying about the C27, not to quarrel with owners
about the quality of their boats.
But I was a little baffled and alarmed to read posts about carrying working
sails and spinnakers in 35 and 40 knots of wind in small production sailboats.
Maybe conditions are different where you are. But you would die if you tried
that in the Atlantic Ocean off South Florida in a C27 or a similar sailboat.
If you haven't already, read John Vigor in Twenty Small Sailboats That Will
Take You Anywhere and The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat. He has excellent
assessments of the seaworthiness and construction quality of the C27 in both.
After inspecting a C27 at length, I agree with what he says.
One last point, and then I'll shut up for good on the topic.
Hull speed on a C27 is 6.2 knots. With a 25-knot following wind and a
clean bottom, my guess is that a single- or double-reefed main would get you to
that speed. At more than 7,000 pounds loaded, the C27 is not going to plane
except under exceptional circumstances. So what happens if you carry more sail?
You stress your rig while driving the bow down into the water. If you have
production sails, as most of us do, they get stretched. You don't get any extra
speed.
If you have a big following sea, you can surf and exceed 6.2 knots. But
surfing is the result of wave action, not wind. As long as you're carrying
enough sail to keep you moving through the troughs of the waves, you're good to
go.
When you turn around and try to beat into that 25-knot wind, you're going
to have a truckload of weather helm from that unreefed main. Now your rudder is
getting stressed.
My point is that it's unseamanlike for people to try to carry that much
sail in strong winds. I hope any beginning sailor reading this understands that.
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]on Behalf Of Judith
Blumhorst, DC
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [IC27A] Judy - C27 CE
oops, an errant cut-n-paste messed up my last paragraph. It should read:
The C27 has a 40% ballast ratio and a modest SA/disp of about 15, and with a
few not-expensive upgrades to the rig, is good candidate for sailing in high
winds.
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From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 7:50:34 AM
Subject: Re: [IC27A] Judy - C27 CE
Your email suggest that you wouldn't be at all happy buying a C27. I suggest
you look for a different boat.
Are you suggesting that everybody on San Francisco Bay should get rid of his
C27 because it isn't safe to sail in our local conditions?
There are hundreds of C27s and crew that have survived thousands of hours of
sailing in 35 knots of wind on all points of sail without catastophic failure
of a sound deck or chainplates. The deck doesn't pulsate at the shroud backing
plates on my boat. (The deck is permanently deflected upwards there, LOL! But
it hasn't ripped apart after 32 years!)
The C27 has a 40% ballast ratio, and with a few not-expensive upgrades to
the rig, is good candidate for sailing in high winds. In my opinion, sailing
skill, seamanship and maintenance are usually the limiting factors.
Fair winds,
Judy B
Sailing an imperfect boat in an otherwise perfect world :^)
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From: Jack Brennan <jackbrennan@ bellsouth. net>
To: ic...@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 6:19:06 AM
Subject: RE: [IC27A] Judy - C27 CE
Hi Judy:
Thanks for the welcome.
You folks out in San Francisco remind me of Vito Dumas in "Alone Through
the Roaring 40s." The difference is that Leeg II was a double-ender built like
a tank. Not so the C27s.
On the '85 I looked at, the chainplates for the forestay and the
backstay were stainless steel straps a couple of inches wide. The chainplates
for the shrouds were L-shaped brackets supported solely by the deck. This isn't
equipment built to take the strain of 35 knots from any point of sail, in my
opinion. On my old C&C 25 (which, for the record, didn't sail as well as a C27
does), the shroud chainplates were six inches wide, a foot long and
through-bolted to the main bulkhead.
To combat this problem, Patrick Childress had custom chainplates built
and strapped them to the topsides because he was frightened by the pulsating
deck where the shroud chainplates were.
Even then, his sail plan for 35 knots of wind was a storm jib.
I briefly traded e-mail with Childress a couple of years back on an
unrelated topic. At one point, I suggested that he write a book about his
circumnavigation. He said he had decided against it because he didn't want to
encourage anyone to do what he did. He said that while the C27 is a great boat,
it just isn't built for offshore-like conditions.
-----Original Message-----
From: ic...@yahoogroups. com [mailto:IC27A@ yahoogroups. com]On Behalf Of
Judith Blumhorst, DC
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 3:32 AM
To: ic...@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [IC27A] Judy - C27 CE
Hi jack,
Welcome to the C27/270 Association list.
I agree that it's a little crazy to fly a spinny in 30+ knots, but I think
you'd be surprised at how much canvas a C27 can carry sailing downwind in those
conditions. I've been sailing 49 years, and so far I haven't yet lost a rig,
nor twisted any hulls nor put a smile at the front of the keel.
My hubby and I regularly fly a 95% (equivalent to a 110% on a std rig) or
135% (equivalent to a std 150%) with full mainsail downwind in 30 knots from
the Golden Gate Bridge to the Bay Bridge. That's enough canvas to get the
boat surfing on the waves. It's scarey fast. It takes considerable skill to
drive in those conditions, because you steer the boat mostly by heeling one way
or the other as the waves pass under her, with only minor correction with the
rudder. If you over react with the rudder, the boat will round up violently or
round down spectacularly and broach.
I certainly agree with you that a flat boat is a fast boat on a reach or a
beat. We reef and shake out reefs all day long depending on our point of sail
if we wanna go fast and flat. We can put one in and or shake one out in under
60 seconds from the cockpit without even rushing. It's second nature to us.
I'd go even further and say that a well trimmed boat is a flat boat is a
safe boat is a fast boat. Even though we don't race, we can shift gears with
the best of 'em. We play the traveller and the sheet leads to put twist in the
sails, outhaul to control the lower profile, backstay on for upwind to shape
the draft in the jib, cunningham for acceleration or high end speed. That's
probably even more important than reefing.
Fair winds,
Judy B
1977 C27 Tall Rig #3459, "Bijou"
San Francisco Bay
http://www.blumhors t.com/catalina27 /catalinahomepag e.htm
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