I was pretty suprised to find out they were cored as well. I had a C-25 swing keel in last year that had jumped up on it's dock during a storm and the owner wasn't aware that it had happened until he hauled out to go on vacation. When I opened the affected area up it poured a small but steady stream of water for three days. I came in every morning thinking it simply had to be done draining by now and sure enough it was still leaking. The fiberglass on the bottom of your hull is about 3/8" thick as an average. It is thicker toward the keel and thinner toward the water line. Then the core, I am thinking I remember the core being 1/2" thick then another 1/4" or so on the inside. I am in no way knocking the design it works quite well. We just have to be sure to keep our bilges as dry as possible, and a barrier coat will help as well. Either way make no mistake about this, If that core is wet the blisters are going to return no matter what you do. If I was in your shoes, I would ask the marina what they would charge for repairing your blisters. I would also use that cost as a leveraging tool on the purchase. After all the blisters were not something you were aware of when you made your offer, so I would think it fair to ask for a dollar for dollar reduction in price for that. This guy has not taken care of his boat so he shouldn't expect to get big money for a bad boat. Try to keep in mind as you negotiate this that if you don't ask, the answer is already no, so what do you have to lose?
--- On Sat, 1/23/10, Doug <[email protected]> wrote: From: Doug <[email protected]> Subject: [IC27A] Re: Possible purchase of a C27 To: [email protected] Date: Saturday, January 23, 2010, 11:00 PM Thanks for your thoughts, Joe. I will take all into consideration. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of money to do too much at once. If I do purchase then the most important will be done first with the balance over time. The marina I will be at does all the work below the water line, so the blister/paint work will be done by them. Not what I'm accustomed to. The rest I will do. What you said about the hull, I thought the C27 was a solid hull not cored? --- In ic...@yahoogroups. com, JOE ROSE <rose26...@. ..> wrote: > > Hello Doug, > I need to introduce myself here as well. I just joined the C-27 owners as > well. I have a small boatyard here in western SC where we work on primarily > sail boats. We regularly do jobs ranging from simple bottom work to complete > restorations. I also own a C-25, C-27 and several other brands as well. At > this time our C-27 is our primary boat ans we absolutely love it. >  > I would like to share some experience from, perhaps a different perspective. > First off when buying a boat there is no such thing as normal blistering. > Almost invariably, boats that keep a dry bilge will have no or very few > blisters and it makes no difference about the brand. Transversely boats that > have a wet bilge will almost invariably have a belly full of blisters > depending on how long it's been since the last bottom job. Blisters are > expensive to fix and it is very difficult to dry out a Catalina hull. > Catalina's have a foam core that absorbs water like you simply would not > believe. I have a Capri 25 in the slings right now that I opened all the > blisters, tented it out and used dehumidifiers (2) and two fans on for over > two months before we got all the water out. That is around 50 gallons of > water, and the bigger the boat the more area it has to absorb water. I > start here as this is likely your biggest and most time consuming expense. > Around here blisters run between $2.5-10. each depending on how deep they > are. > Next, the nuts on the keel look terrible, but more often than not it > something of an illusion. The last one we did, after properly sitting the > boat on it's keel we simple removed the old nuts and reinstalled new > stainless nuts. This is still pretty time consuming project even with all the > proper tools and a crane to lift with. This is likely going to be a job for a > yard unless you have a way to lift the boat so as to get full contact on the > bottom of the keel. > Next, a new mainsail even with my 20% discount it is going to be expensive. I > used to send all my sails out to Sail Care in Ford City Pa. They would come > back and look wonderful, but what I finaly figured out is that, while they > look great, they don't sail any better. A blown out sail is blown out, at > that point it will heel the boat more than driving it. This sail is the most > important means of propulsion on the boat. It amazes me how often people will > gladly spend money on cosmetics and neglect the sails all together. > OK, lets look at a more overall view. I am assuming you will do the bottom on > any boat you buy so we'll leave that out. > 3k for the boat > 2K for blisters (avg =200) > 1.5K new main > 1K new electronics > 1K new halyards, window/hatch reseal kits etc. > So now we are at $8500.00 +/- and we have yet to address anything to do with > the engine, cushions, or the rotten bulkhead. > The only problem I have with this math is that when finished you will have a > fine boat that would be worth around 10K if you sold it and you had to do all > the work, so where is the incentive to do this? If you were to value your > time in here at even $25 per hour the cost of this boat is pretty upside down. > Right now there are some really good boats out the for less than they > normally bring due to the economy being in the crapper. > On the other hand if you are one of the bonehead people (like myself) who > actually love working on boats and consider it privilegege rather than a > chore, then by all means grab this thing up. Restoring boats makes no > financial sense whatsoever, but it is quite gratifying to stand back and look > at my work. Keep in mind here that doing things right takes alot more time > than we are used to. > Best Regards > joe rose > > > --- On Sat, 1/23/10, Don Burnett <donjam...@. ..> wrote: > > > From: Don Burnett <donjam...@. ..> > Subject: Re:[IC27A] Re: Possible purchase of a C27 > To: "ic...@yahoogroups. com" <ic...@yahoogroups. com> > Date: Saturday, January 23, 2010, 3:12 PM > > >  > > > > Doug. The rigging (and engine) are key evals. Rigging keeps the mast > up w compression all manner of forces. Most of what you listed is > "expected" more or less. Blisters could be an issue depending on > scope. You may want to sister in some addl keel bots and the rest of > labor you'll need to invest is not insignificant and a pain such as > leaking ports or windows. Roller furling us a big plus if not racing > and that's $1.5k or so. Running rigging not cheap either. Do it up > right. Bottom line - wait for balance of survey and DO negotiate it > down. Walk if you need to. Price of survey is worth every penny if > done well and it sounds good. Don't forget to ask for moisture > readings that a good surveyor will do for deck, rudder etc. I know > you want a boat and seller knows it too. Hang tough. You've got a lot > of "work" ahead of you. Assess your willingness to invest the time and > think about if you want to be sailing or working on boat. Perhaps > there will be another better suited to your pref. I love my c27 and > you will too. Just keep it real and maintain some distance and > perspective. > > Don > 1981 #4855 > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 23, 2010, at 11:06, "Doug" <dj2...@yahoo. com> wrote: > > > Well we had the survey yesterday which I was present for and lasted > > all day. The boat was hauled and the bottom was inspected. Still > > waiting for the service guy to evaluate the engine. I don't yet have > > the write up > > Findings so far (most I knew about) are; > > 1. Very neglected 1-2 yrs, spider webs, mud dauber nests, water in > > bilge, etc > > 2. Keel bolts are SS but nut are steel and are very deteriorated > > 3. Mainsail very dirty, stained in fair condition > > 4. !50, 110 hank on sails very good condition (5-6 yrs old) > > 5. Sail cover shredded, non usable > > 6. All ports leaking > > 7. Lifelines in good condition > > 8. Electronics non working (wind speed, direction, depth, boat speed) > > 9. Dead Batteries but battery charger good > > 10. All electrical systems work > > 11. Bottom looks ok ('normal' amount of blisters?) Keel straight, > > minimal slop in rudder, cutlass bearing ok > > 12. Most lines needs updating. > > 13. rigging-I had to leave so have to wait till I get the survey > > paper. > > 14. waste tank ok but the hoses need redoing. > > 15. water tank- ok > > 16. Fuel tank ok but needs new filler hose. There appears to be no > > fuel filter in line to engine. > > > > If the engine evaluation comes back ok, good compression, etc then I > > am still very interested. > > This boat was listed for $9750.00 and I offered 5k contingent upon > > survey. The surveyor siad he would probably value it less maybe 3k. > > Do you think I should re-negotiate less? > > > > Doug > > > > --- In ic...@yahoogroups. com, "dj2210" <dj2210@> wrote: > > > > > > Hi All, > > > I just wanted to introduce myself. I have a deposit on a 1982 C27 > > standard rig. This Friday we will haul and survey so maybe will own > > it this weekend. She will be sailed in east TN after I do whatever > > needs doing. The first thing will be the port bulkhead due to rot at > > the chain plate. (Finding some marine ply might be a problem) This > > boat looks ok but has not been sailed for at least a year so needs a > > lot of attention. New running lines, new cushions, sealing the > > ports, etc, you get the idea. It has an A4 that has not been started > > for some time. I will probably have questions as we come across > > problem areas but this site and links has so far given me a wealth > > of info. > > > Thanks > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
