> judy could you mark up a picture and show how you measure?  I cant
> figure it out...  i was thinking a short mouth was how far the corners
> of the mouth are from the bars. 


I'm measuring the lips without reference to the bars because so many
times you'll see someone riding with so much contact that the lips are
stretched way beyond what we'd think would be comfortable for the
horse, which also gives us some type of reference as to how much
contact there is.

Judy

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