On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 1:32 AM, bipin kumar <[email protected]> wrote:
> its getting really tiresome. > > "of course.Adoption of FOSS is a good policy. I am curious about the > selction > of the distro, and the framework created for its maintenance and > improvement. > Making a seperate distro/Custom Linux/DVD remaster is absolutely OK, > if it > the resource demand can be afforded and well managed. > > Some problems are:isolation of the new entity from its parent distro. > The > parent distro attained fast maturity because of wide community > support. The > core of new entity (of the new distro/DVD remaster ) is not updated at > the > speed of its parent, making it substandard. > > When it is declared as a new entity and isolate it from its parent > forum, it > loses the support from the forum too. When you ask a question to the > debian > forum saying 'i am using i...@school and i would be pleased to get some > comments or the following problem", you get less number of answers. > For > international users dont know i...@school. And they wont be very much > intersted when they really come to know the interests behind declaring > as a > more or less 'new entity'. I mean taking advantage of it, for election > and > other group glorification purposes. > > In other words, the govt could have adopted a distro which is > internationally developed, as such, and just add to its specific > demands > (language,specific apps etc). It could have been totally isolated only > when > there is considerable change in policies. > > the official docs on efforts from Govt side (Kerala)can be seen at: " > > in the entire above paragraph you are commenting on the government's > decision without having any substantial info regarding the actual > variables that were used in making such a decision. simply put this is > what i meant by you are shooting in the dark. while answering, i hope you had full reference to stick so much on to it that there is absolutely nothing to be concerned in the governance sector?else you could have just asked to put more data,without making statements or assumptions. And make a commitment that you would be involved in tackling it in an effective way. The same logic with which you say that I should go to RTI and take taht kind of systematic steps before I discuss it in a Mailing list. > if you want make such a > statement first get your facts, file an RTI, get the answers from > concerned authorities on what basis they are going ahead with custom > solution and then come back here for a debate, rather than chasing the > smoke. > further why shouldn't government use a custom os for their purpose. > maybe you have given some generic reasons, but that doesn't fly. to > give you an example who said government is going ahead with expensive > dedicated pc based solution for governance, they could have gone for > thin client based solutions as well, where only one good server and > and array of barebone pcs are sufficient for the task. why is thin client system not adopted then? Thin client deployment Vs individual system was the cover page feature for many issues in Indian IT magazines for some time, untill sub10,000K computers surfaced.In later issues, thin clients were reported to be more expensive. Issues: [Heavy UPS power support and cool isolated atmosphere for the server. long cables, which could damage a lot if disturbed, unlike a LAN. What is actually lacking in a thin client? A full fledged processor.The individual 7200rpm HDD at client end would be substituted by a RAID at the other end. Motherboard BUS speeds Vs Thinclient BUS speeds debatable. Weighs equal in economics with lower perfomance?Advantages like centarlised database remains even though.This is the case for governance like resource usage scenario. Accentia @ Tvm technopark considered thin client, then droped the idea. dunk dunkaaa! They are in Medical transcription field, The purpose was just to stream normal bitrate audio, and run a text editor. Situation was not OS/software specific. BSNL Nova PC is such an initiative which uses broadband internet connection.Depoyed already at select cities. I donno much about it. Says processing would be done centrally. Novatium.com does not mention such details in main pages. Thank god you didnt come up with openhardware or cloud computing. or Govt Starting manufacturing computers as such. Hope one day Keltron would be a strong name. can you imagine > how a full fledged desktop based distro solution fit into this > situation. further it is nothing new that organizations deploy their > own custom linux solution for their purposes, that are radically > different from the mainstream you are so fond of. I would ask my girl friend to talk to you for a while, because you know me better than myself! [?] I am "so fond of mainstream"! > an example is is the > version of linux deployed in google servers, kernel of which is > radically different from the mainstream linux kernel tree. oracle too > has such a solution. now dont get started on the lines that govt lack > the ability to do so. we do have talented pool of unemployed youth in > kerala, maybe this might be an opportunity for them. lets not be > cynical. > true. Does those Google thingy fall under GNU GPL? i would like to test it on my celeron1.4GHz. Bip, not making you angry, i am very curious about how to get a GPL code be kept locked, keeping GNU GPL licence on softwares. make custom hardware with some "паттичае паттичае" instruction sets which nobody understand? (dont go for the translation, i just meant "unreadable") To make it simple, add a single small piece of propreitory hardware with some uncrackable instruction sets in it. Then write crooked code, which takes a life time prepaid to understand. add shortcuts and bypasses to compensate decrease in code perfomance. I am this crooked, no albutham that I am always beaten up by everybody around me. > > 'i am using i...@school and i would be pleased to get some > comments or the following problem" > here its the problem of the way of asking the question. rather than > saying i...@school linux its better to say debian sarge(i may be wrong > about actual version of debian used) based distro and one might get > proper answers. its important to ask intelligent questions to get > intelligent answers. > simple questions can be intelligently answered too. Look into the documentation of i...@school. and normal user get no idea what changes had been made to the base distro, what the actual customisations are. And i...@school user -student as well as a teacher, would be able to extract out the software profile,necessary to be supplied with questions. :D . Just the base distro version is enough when responding with an issue? And you are indirectly supporting on familiarising it as a different entity. > "Fact (5) of first post: 5)The students who learn GNU/Linux and > associated systems does not have enough professisonal functionality** > because of comparitively low-perfoming professional softwares in FOSS > arena.They fail to get job.[Fact, main context of thread] " > > simply put its not fact its just a statement made by you without any > source of reference. > my personal attempt to setup a video machine is the refernce. ArtistX, UbuntuStudio and DyneBolic are the ones tried so far. lagging, not processing my footage. The details would be put later. I am listening to cinellerra mailing list since 2008. far lagging in handling footage available now. Kino, Openvideo editor etc are not comparable to professional ones. exception is Blender. Blender is near professional software, if the user has mastery over it.It do have some video capabilities. Gimp was not performing good in my comparison test with PS some months back. memmroy not getting released i think. further a person who actually trained well in FOSS based solution is > most likely to be better skilled in adapting solutions that are > dissimilar to one he is experineced, converse is true for proprietary > solutions as well. "where is Microsoft word ?" syndrome i mentioned > earlier thread becomes valid over here. > as in 'somebody with a male voice called me at evening and said "son i robed you, that you be aware that you are susceptible to getting robbed, and you would learn to ponder with the situation better tomarrow" ? let the users pay that price of learning, it would surely help.in any case. Bipin, you are adding a lot of data, thanks, but i humbly request you to lower down the muzzle power at which you are sending it to me. Were'nt you aggressive at the first post boss? now thanks for not just leaving me to alone to perish. thanks for the company. Bipin > > On May 18, 9:09 pm, nishandh M <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 11:02 AM, bipin kumar <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > "Is it terribly wrong if R&D research out side Kerala came into > > > mention? > > > Consider KSCSTE expenditure. [not just shooting into space, I know > > > instances > > > where Vista-pre installed PCs were selected to buy, when XP was still > > > there, > > > and Vista remained unsupported for most of the office purposes like > > > installing the Tally version.] Most research institutes in Kerala are > > > supported for infrastructure through central funds. Central policy > > > counts." > > > > > yes it is wrong because as per your initial statement the government > > > was going in for custom GNU/Linux distro for adminstrative purposes. > > > this means running day to day governance activities. Now you can't get > > > simpler explanation for that. > > > > @Bipin: That is a contextual fact, i gave in the first sentance. There > are > > other statements too. Being presented at first doesnt mean it is the > essence > > of the post. Should have been better if you attempted on the question.. > > > > hence for the aforesaid purpose a custom > > > > > linux solution is a good choice > > > > simply put, it just have to run those > > > > > governance apps > > > > @Bipin: taken as a comment on (1) > > of course.Adoption of FOSS is a good policy. I am curious about the > selction > > of the distro, and the framework created for its maintenance and > > improvement. > > Making a seperate distro/Custom Linux/DVD remaster is absolutely OK, if > it > > the resource demand can be afforded and well managed. > > > > Some problems are:isolation of the new entity from its parent distro. The > > parent distro attained fast maturity because of wide community support. > The > > core of new entity (of the new distro/DVD remaster ) is not updated at > the > > speed of its parent, making it substandard. > > > > When it is declared as a new entity and isolate it from its parent forum, > it > > loses the support from the forum too. When you ask a question to the > debian > > forum saying 'i am using i...@school and i would be pleased to get some > > comments or the following problem", you get less number of answers. For > > international users dont know i...@school. And they wont be very much > > intersted when they really come to know the interests behind declaring as > a > > more or less 'new entity'. I mean taking advantage of it, for election > and > > other group glorification purposes. > > > > In other words, the govt could have adopted a distro which is > > internationally developed, as such, and just add to its specific demands > > (language,specific apps etc). It could have been totally isolated only > when > > there is considerable change in policies. > > > > the official docs on efforts from Govt side (Kerala)can be seen at: > http://www.itmission.kerala.gov.in/index.php?searchword=FOSS&ordering... > > > > . > > > > > and not your favourite video editing apps. > > > > @Bipin: Fact (5) of first post: 5)The students who learn GNU/Linux and > > associated systems does not have enough professisonal functionality** > > because of comparitively low-perfoming professional softwares in FOSS > > arena.They fail to get job.[Fact, main context of thread] > > > > I get my favorite video apps running better when the above is taken into > > consideration.buhhhuhhahha. > > I get stability and office productivity when FOSS in governance sector is > > improved.buhuhhahha > > > > @evrybody: > > Is there any need, to prevent parasites (like me) feeding on the > > contributors effort? (NO/YES) > > If there is an need, how do we accomplish it: > > Share the specific distro only among those who sign a contribute-alike > > licence? > > > > What could be the terms of contribute-alike license? > > a) send us money (hai hai dollar!) > > b) make ten installations or get sued for braeking the contribute-alike > > license > > mitha-vaadhi version: brother, make some installation as far as you can, > > and do some support you can, at your free time. > > c) Time-bank (spend some hours in any way good for the socety. any > > progressive way, not only IT service) > > d) this would make people reluctant to adopt the specific distro. > > e)People would adopt the distro, as most of them are wiling to contribute > to > > the society. > > f)there is no phenomenon/process like 'parasitisation on GPL product' in > our > > FOSS dictionary, its just your sick brain man! > > d)Distro development team would be much more pleased, as ther is direct > > evidence of social change, and never has a feeling that they are feeding > > permanent 'free lunch eaters'. > > d) Shit-man, this is all already understood, there is no need of > > formalisation/consolidation. Formalisation is bad, even if you > > have time for it. > > > > now to the> latter part of the statement. regarding r&d majority of these > > > institutes operates as autonomous bodies i.e central government do not > > > interfere in day to day activities. all that central govt can do is > > > set the guideline is such way that ICT deployment in such institutions > > > provide lowest possible TCO(total cost of ownership) > > > > A comment on autocratic nature of institutes? does the TCO justify? > atleast > > in long term? > > > > What I said was: govt "support" ,and not govt "control" > > > > > > > > > "Majority of the reaserch are human, but we have a lot of instances > > > where > > > there are investments for totaly illogical research [for example > > > those > > > involving field release of GMO food] > > > > > Do you say that all resaerch in India is in good motive? I can give > > > you a > > > number of instances in State/Central academic and research institutes. > > > Shud > > > I stop commenting on research institutes, for the reason that you are > > > in a > > > reserach field? Thanks and admirable that you are maintaining an > > > above > > > normal moral value. " > > > > > this forum is not place to discuss the merits and demerits of r&d > > > going on in our country. we can debate over it in another place some > > > other time. > > > > welcome .you are right. > > > > > > > > > On May 18, 6:27 am, nishandh M <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 2:10 AM, bipin kumar <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > "> 1) Kerala Govt has already forced GNU/Linux based system in > > > > > > educational > > > > > > system and in administrative sections.It is not just 'let the > user > > > > > > choose' > > > > > > ans. simple, here the user is the government of kerala, and they > have > > > > > > chosen a solution that can meet their organizational > requirements. " > > > > > > > its quite obvious from the above post that by organization i am > > > > > referring to the govt of kerala hence rest of the following > statement > > > > > in quotes don't require further explanation > > > > > > > > "I had no idea that you are meaning Govt brother, true :( > > > > > since I had stressed upon about fsug priorities, i thought its > fsug. > > > > > and pls > > > > > gimme a clause in it which was not also applicable to fsug! " > > > > > > > > "yup. now i would put defense reserach, and research > > > laboratories.Holy > > > > > cows.I > > > > > have seen MACs in IISC. we read about the budget in news papers.(am > > > > > supportng ur view" > > > > > > > really now its quite obvious that you want hear that only really > like > > > > > to hear and see what you like to see. > > > > > > This is not what i like to see. Its a hard fact.Doesnt PC offer the > > > similiar > > > > performance at similiar cost? I dont think many reasearch softwares > are > > > > there specific to MAC platform. Ther are a lot of media based, which > are > > > > highly ranked among professionals. > > > > > > > this post began with your statement that the govt of Kerala has > opted > > > > > of custom GNU/Liinux for their administrative purposes & > educational > > > > > system(i.e the public education system which mainly involves the > > > > > schools) > > > > > > > now where does defense research and other R&D comes in this > context, > > > > > will you please explain. > > > > > > Is it terribly wrong if R&D research out side Kerala came into > mention? > > > > Consider KSCSTE expenditure. [not just shooting into space, I know > > > instances > > > > where Vista-pre installed PCs were selected to buy, when XP was still > > > there, > > > > and Vista remained unsupported for most of the office purposes like > > > > installing the Tally version.] Most research institutes in Kerala are > > > > supported for infrastructure through central funds. Central policy > > > counts. > > > > > > > now regarding use of macs and other expensive > > > > > stuff IISc or other R&D institutes, one of which i happen to work, > > > > > have you any idea regarding the computational need in an R&D lab. > just > > > > > to give an example three dimensional reconstruction of protein > > > > > structure in my institute is done using an SGI workstation because > no > > > > > other platform cuts it. > > > > > > Please release the spec? No FOSS platform cuts it?It would be worth > to > > > see > > > > some discussion on it. > > > > > > > you want us wait for the day when such > > > > > technology becomes available in other affordable platforms? > > > > > > This is a good question, which i am not sure is directed to me or > into > > > the > > > > dark space you called? > > > > You are making a comment about the current capabilities of Linux. > > > > > > > i merely state that hardware/software solutions for an enterprise > are > > > > > made on a case to case basis as per the organizations needs and > > > > > financial priorities, and not on a idealogical basis. > > > > > > FOSS is an ideology based initiative,in which 'open' is the most > > > outstanding > > > > innovation.Not "free" as in "Free Lunch" > > > > And FOSS working out, and approved as POC. It should be considered > where > > > > ever possible, when making decisions. > > > > > > > you cannot thrust your favourite distro as it is into the throats > of > > > > > an organization. > > > > > > Man did i say so?can you state any one distro which i pushed? > > > > We have n number of distros, of which we have top ranked ones. I > would > > > like > > > > development concentarted in one or more selected distors, That it > matures > > > > fast, and can be released to the population(I too benefit from it) I > > > asked > > > > which ones would be the better ones. > > > > > > > However open source > > > > ... > > > > read more >> > > -- > "Freedom is the only law". > "Freedom Unplugged" > http://www.ilug-tvm.org > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "ilug-tvm" group. > To control your subscription visit > http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > > > > For details visit the google group page: > http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en > -- #//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////# "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" Leonardo da Vinci #//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////# -- "Freedom is the only law". "Freedom Unplugged" http://www.ilug-tvm.org You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "ilug-tvm" group. To control your subscription visit http://groups.google.co.in/group/ilug-tvm/subscribe To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For details visit the google group page: http://groups.google.com/group/ilug-tvm?hl=en
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