>They didn't notify domain administrators either pre or post test, no attempt was made. It would be nice to notify a domain after it was tested, but is only practical if there is a problem. BTW, how many email admins have you tried to contact? Its harder than you might think. Most domains have no postmaster or abuse accounts. This is why I turned off these tests in Declude. They are so common. It becomes impractical to notify the admin.
>Mail sent to or from a user on our system, whether asked for or not you pretty much have to live with. Isn't unsolicited mail sent to a user on your system considered... well... SPAM? How do you differentiate between the good SPAM and the bad SPAM? >But mail from joeblow spammer to somebody else using my server is unauthorized use in anybodys book. I agree. And many of us attempt to control this by using blacklists generated by someone else. But I don't use the blacklist and then criticize the way they aquire those entries. Thats pretty hypocritical! You should stop using the blacklists that aquire entries in a manner contrary to what you write in this list. >I guess the way I look at it is if the spammer pays for his own mail and bandwidth to deliver the goods I can't fault him. The problem is that I'm paying for some of this without the ability to deny the charges! Even if the SPAMmer uses his own server with a paid internet connection, I'm still paying for part of his delivery! Thats why Fax SPAMming is illegal in many states. The lawmakers just haven't yet realized the cost of receiving email. >I might not like that kind of junk mail but don't see that anything should be done about it from a mail admin's standpoint. I'm at a loss to understand why you even use Declude Junkmail (as you mentioned in a previous post). What do you considered SPAM? What do you think should be filtered? What do you currently filter? What blacklists do you currently use? I think that making me pay to receive something that someone else profits on, without my permission, is SPAM. Period. And should be actively persued. That persuit should also entail tracking down the innocent people that unknowingly aid in that endeavor. Maybe some people just should not be running a mail server. Maybe some people should not be mail admins. Its not a value judgement. Its a reality check. Not everybody that claims to be competent is competent. This is the reality of the techie world. Todd -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Roger Alumbaugh Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 10:53 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [IMail Forum] ORBZ shut down > My opinion on #1: > - A message that is malformed or does not adhere to the > standards could be considered malicious. But I don't know > how to seperate the SPAMmers from the ASP pages that have the > same broken headers. Any message that is well-formed should > not be considered malicious, even if your server failed to > handle it correctly. > - SPAMmers are not hackers. They don't try to infect your > computer (if they do, I call them hackers). They send > annoying, unwanted messages. They hijack other servers for > their own gain. I don't think that I should have to receive > anything from them. But its up to me to stop their messages! > By putting myself on the public internet, I accept to > receive a certain number of messages that I didn't ask for. > Have you ever received a joke from a friend of a friend that > you never heard of? Did you turn them in for trespassing on > your mail server? > - Open Relay tests messages on not hacking attempts. They > are housekeeping messages that keep the house (internet) > clean for everyones benefit. > - If the tests messages are the same for all servers, then > how can the be accused of singling out a specific server? > Even if ORBZ knew their tests would cause problems for > unpatched Dominoe servers, as long as the test message is > consistent for all servers. Maybe I am not seeing a valid reason for an email test to be delivered to [EMAIL PROTECTED] which is the internel ip of the interface and causes the bounce problems... But I can see no reason a valid email program should send an email like that... And as far as I can tell this is what locks up those servers and possibly some others. Orbz wasn't even close to housekeeping attempts. They didn't notify domain administrators either pre or post test, no attempt was made. And you seem to mistake the trespassing portion. Mail sent to or from a user on our system, whether asked for or not you pretty much have to live with. But mail from joeblow spammer to somebody else using my server is unauthorized use in anybodys book. > My opinion on #2: > - My first reaction is yes. Its a free country! > - My second reaction is I'm tired of paying for capacity to > support the "free country" of the internet for others monetary gain. > - I feel that the difference is when the entity making money > is making someone else pay for them to do business. > - Example: I have an Aunt that sends me garbage emails > constantly (get rich, chain letters, no virus hoax, septic > ads,...), but I don't consider that SPAM b/c she is not > making money on it! Although I would probably pay her to stop!! :-) > - When someone is costing me money for their own gain, I > would like laws against that! At the very least, let me > motivate other entities (ie. ORBZ) to help me keep them at bay. On number 2 I also am torn... I guess the way I look at it is if the spammer pays for his own mail and bandwidth to deliver the goods I can't fault him. I suspect he won't likely be able to pay for it though. Of course look at verisign now... I just received a notice that I need to renew a domain with a quick easy link to renew it through them... Problem is I have it registered with somebody else.. At less than 1/3 the cost... My guess their spam program will net them big bucks... I might not like that kind of junk mail but don't see that anything should be done about it from a mail admin's standpoint. Please visit http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html to be removed from this list. An Archive of this list is available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ Please visit the Knowledge Base for answers to frequently asked questions: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] Please visit http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html to be removed from this list. An Archive of this list is available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ Please visit the Knowledge Base for answers to frequently asked questions: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/
