Dear Devendra ji
I think your plant is still unidentified. It has two clear features of P.
amarus: male and female fls in same axils (most middle ones), and the leaves
are much larger and broader, and one more things which I notice, your plant
seems to be distinctly pubescent, and of diiferent colour (than my plant of P.
fraternus, or plant of Dinesh ji). I think we will explore further before
confirmation. It could be P. rotundifolius (if cataphylls are present- note
small appendages in my photograph showing upper view of P. fraternus) or else
Maderaspatensis (if cataphylls are absent). To me Dinesh ji plant fits better
with P. maderaspatensis, but I am not certain at present. Before we resolve let
us look at the following things, if you can find fresh plants. (There is,
however, one caution. The plants flowering these days (at least in P.
fraternus) have smaller leaves than ones I photographed in May-June):
1. whether plant is herbaceous or woody
2. presence or absence of pubescence
3. colour of leaves (yours are light green, mine and Dinesh ji's dark green)
4. Chape of leaves (that can be judged from photgraph)
5. Size of leaves
6. Whether middle portion has only female flowers, or mixed male and female
7. Number of perianth (some call them sepals), 6 in two whorls or 5 in one whorl
8. Tip of perianth pointed or rounded
9. Size of perianth
10. Size, shape and colour of fruits
11. Number of lobes of disc
12. Length of pedicel of female flower and fruit
For me even Dinesh ji's plant may turn out to be different. It has much more
rigid leaves, even the branches appear rigid, leaves dark green. We may have to
look at cataphylls to decide finally.
Let us hope something interesting comes out
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College
University of Delhi, Delhi
India
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45
----- Original Message -----
From: Devendra Bhardwaj
To: Gurcharan Singh ; Dinesh Valke
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 6:20 AM
Subject: Re: [indiantreepix:17144] Re: ID-DKB178
Thanks to Gurcharan ji &Dinesh ji for correct ID.
Regd
Devendra
--- On Sat, 29/8/09, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Dinesh Valke <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [indiantreepix:17144] Re: ID-DKB178
To: "Gurcharan Singh" <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected], "Devendra Bhardwaj"
<[email protected]>
Date: Saturday, 29 August, 2009, 10:41 PM
Gurcharan ji ... thank you very much for pointing info of the species.
So is it correct that Devendra ji's plant is P. fraternus ?
Regards.
On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 10:25 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>
wrote:
Dear Dinesh ji
Phyllanthus fraternus (with P. niruri Hook.f. non Linn. as syn) and
P. amarus are both described in Eflora of Pakistan. Latter is described in
Eflora of China, who mention that it was formerly misidentified as P. niruri.
Presence of 5 perianth (as against 6 in P. fraternus), each leaf axil (most
middle) with one male and one female flower (female flowers single in leaf
axils in P. fraternus), disc 5 lobed (as against 6-10 lobed) are quite
characteristic of P. amarus. Leaves are described as 3-8 x 2-4.5 mm in Eflora
of Pakistan, 3-6 x 1.5-3 mm in Flora of China. Your plant with larger leaves
could be different species.
P. fraternus grows around my house and I have observed it
constantly.
Let us explore further
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College
University of Delhi, Delhi
India
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45
----- Original Message -----
From: Dinesh Valke
To: Gurcharan Singh
Cc: [email protected] ; Devendra Bhardwaj
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [indiantreepix:17144] Re: ID-DKB178
Gurcharan ji, the leaves in the photo attached by me are about 12
- 15 mm long, and about 5 - 8 mm wide ... the fruits seen are about 2 - 3 mm.
I am believing it to be P. amarus, and also P. niruri as its
synonym.
However, I am keen to know whether I am mistaking, especially
because there is too much mix up of P. amarus, P. niruri, and P. fraternus on
the internet ...though whatever is discussed seemingly contradict.
Any clarity for differentiating these three species will greatly
help in thrashing confusion and mistakes on the internet.
Regards.
On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Gurcharan Singh
<[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Dinesh ji and Devendra ji
I thought the plant photographed by Devendra ji appeared to be
shrubby, and fruits larger and black- hence my guess about reticulatus.
P. niruri Linn, P. amarus and P. fraternus are three distinct
species, but Indian specimens don't belong to P. niruri rather P. fraternus. P.
niruri thus is not synonym of P. amarus (not P. niruri Linn or P. niruri
Hook.f.). P. fraternus has larger leaves and 6 perianth, male and female fls in
different axils (male in lower axils, female in our axils), and 6-10 lobed
disc. P. amarus has smaller leaves (yours are larger than mine P. fraternus
hence the doubt), perianth 5 and 5-lobed disc.
Gurcharan Singh
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College
University of Delhi, Delhi
India
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45
----- Original Message -----
From: Dinesh Valke
To: [email protected] ; Gurcharan Singh
Cc: Devendra Bhardwaj
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [indiantreepix:17144] Re: ID-DKB178
... Phyllanthus amarus
commonly known as: black catnip, carry me seed, child
pick-a-back, gale of wind, gulf leaf flower, hurricane weed, shatterstone,
stone breaker • Bengali: bhui amla • Hindi: bhui aonla, jar amla, jangli amli •
Kannada: kirunelli, nelanelli • Marathi: भुईआवळी bhuiavali • Sanskrit:
bahupatra, भूम्यामलकी bhumyaamalaki, jar amla, thamalaki • Tamil: கீழாநெல்லி
keelanelli, கீழ்காய்நெல்லி kizkaynelli • Telugu: నేల ఉసిరి nela usiri
Regards.
On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Gurcharan Singh
<[email protected]> wrote:
Devender ji, I think Phyllanthus reticulatus
Gurcharan Singh
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College
University of Delhi, Delhi
India
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45
----- Original Message -----
From: Devendra Bhardwaj
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 9:08 AM
Subject: [indiantreepix:17127] ID-DKB178
Hello,
Plant from Virat nagar Forest Jaipur
For ID(ID-DKB178)
It is Phyllanthus?
Photo Taken on-26.8.2009
Regd
Devendra
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