Tabish ji
I think I have not been able to explain things clearly. I never wrote that
P. niruri grows in India. P. ninuri was wrongly identified in Flora of
British India, and Indian specimens were subsequently identified as P.
fraternus (Maheshwari, Flora of Delhi; Eflora of Pakistan; Useful plants of
India, etc) and hence the synonym as P. niruri Hook.f. (non Linn.). It
occurs in India and Pakistan- now naturalised elsewhere (also see
BalaKrishnan-family Euphorbiaceae in India; Wealth of India). So no
confusion about P. fraternus and P. niruri.
Now coming to P. amarus is an american species now naturalised in
Tropical Old World, including India, China and Japan. The specimens were/are
sometimes confused with P. niruri/P. fraternus/P. urinaria but is easily
distinguished by smaller leaves, lateral veins usually 3 pairs, male and
female flowers in same axil, perianth (sepals) 5 in number and disc 5-lobed.
It has two subspecies in China ssp. amarus (annual plants, erect) and ssp.
sanyaensis (biennial or perennial, trailing or prostrate. Both P. fraternus
and P. urinaria have 6 perianth, leaves of former being glabrous, fruit
glabrous, that of latter hispidulus along margin and fruit tuberculate.
Both P. fraternus and P. amarus are illustrated in Eflora of Pakistan.
I think there should be no confusion between P fraternus and P. amarus.
Both occur in India.
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College
University of Delhi, Delhi
India
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tabish" <[email protected]>
To: "indiantreepix" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:07 PM
Subject: [indiantreepix:17202] Re: ID-DKB178
According to Kew World Checklist ( http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/home.do )
Phyllanthus amarus has the following synonyms:
Phyllanthus niruri var. amarus
Phyllanthus niruri var. scabrellus
Phyllanthus niruri var. baronianus
among others. Is supposed to be distributed (after introduction) in
parts of India.
Phyllanthus niruri's distribution in the Kew World Checklist does not
mention India.
Best wishes
- Tabish
On Aug 30, 8:52 am, "Gurcharan Singh" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dear Devendra ji
> I think your plant is still unidentified. It has two clear features of P.
> amarus: male and female fls in same axils (most middle ones), and the
> leaves are much larger and broader, and one more things which I notice,
> your plant seems to be distinctly pubescent, and of diiferent colour (than
> my plant of P. fraternus, or plant of Dinesh ji). I think we will explore
> further before confirmation. It could be P. rotundifolius (if cataphylls
> are present- note small appendages in my photograph showing upper view of
> P. fraternus) or else Maderaspatensis (if cataphylls are absent). To me
> Dinesh ji plant fits better with P. maderaspatensis, but I am not certain
> at present. Before we resolve let us look at the following things, if you
> can find fresh plants. (There is, however, one caution. The plants
> flowering these days (at least in P. fraternus) have smaller leaves than
> ones I photographed in May-June):
>
> 1. whether plant is herbaceous or woody
> 2. presence or absence of pubescence
> 3. colour of leaves (yours are light green, mine and Dinesh ji's dark
> green)
> 4. Chape of leaves (that can be judged from photgraph)
> 5. Size of leaves
> 6. Whether middle portion has only female flowers, or mixed male and
> female
> 7. Number of perianth (some call them sepals), 6 in two whorls or 5 in one
> whorl
> 8. Tip of perianth pointed or rounded
> 9. Size of perianth
> 10. Size, shape and colour of fruits
> 11. Number of lobes of disc
> 12. Length of pedicel of female flower and fruit
>
> For me even Dinesh ji's plant may turn out to be different. It has much
> more rigid leaves, even the branches appear rigid, leaves dark green. We
> may have to look at cataphylls to decide finally.
>
> Let us hope something interesting comes out
>
> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
> Associate Professor
> SGTB Khalsa College
> University of Delhi, Delhi
> Indiahttp://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Devendra Bhardwaj
> To: Gurcharan Singh ; Dinesh Valke
> Cc: [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 6:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [indiantreepix:17144] Re: ID-DKB178
>
> Thanks to Gurcharan ji &Dinesh ji for correct ID.
> Regd
> Devendra
>
> --- On Sat, 29/8/09, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> From: Dinesh Valke <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [indiantreepix:17144] Re: ID-DKB178
> To: "Gurcharan Singh" <[email protected]>
> Cc: [email protected], "Devendra Bhardwaj"
> <[email protected]>
> Date: Saturday, 29 August, 2009, 10:41 PM
>
> Gurcharan ji ... thank you very much for pointing info of the species.
> So is it correct that Devendra ji's plant is P. fraternus ?
>
> Regards.
>
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 10:25 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Dear Dinesh ji
>
> Phyllanthus fraternus (with P. niruri Hook.f. non Linn. as syn) and P.
> amarus are both described in Eflora of Pakistan. Latter is described in
> Eflora of China, who mention that it was formerly misidentified as P.
> niruri. Presence of 5 perianth (as against 6 in P. fraternus), each leaf
> axil (most middle) with one male and one female flower (female flowers
> single in leaf axils in P. fraternus), disc 5 lobed (as against 6-10
> lobed) are quite characteristic of P. amarus. Leaves are described as 3-8
> x 2-4.5 mm in Eflora of Pakistan, 3-6 x 1.5-3 mm in Flora of China. Your
> plant with larger leaves could be different species.
> P. fraternus grows around my house and I have observed it constantly.
>
> Let us explore further
>
> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
> Associate Professor
> SGTB Khalsa College
> University of Delhi, Delhi
> India
> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dinesh Valke
> To: Gurcharan Singh
> Cc: [email protected] ; Devendra Bhardwaj
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 6:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [indiantreepix:17144] Re: ID-DKB178
>
> Gurcharan ji, the leaves in the photo attached by me are about 12 - 15 mm
> long, and about 5 - 8 mm wide ... the fruits seen are about 2 - 3 mm.
> I am believing it to be P. amarus, and also P. niruri as its synonym.
>
> However, I am keen to know whether I am mistaking, especially because
> there is too much mix up of P. amarus, P. niruri, and P. fraternus on the
> internet ...though whatever is discussed seemingly contradict.
>
> Any clarity for differentiating these three species will greatly help in
> thrashing confusion and mistakes on the internet.
>
> Regards.
>
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Dear Dinesh ji and Devendra ji
>
> I thought the plant photographed by Devendra ji appeared to be shrubby,
> and fruits larger and black- hence my guess about reticulatus.
>
> P. niruri Linn, P. amarus and P. fraternus are three distinct species, but
> Indian specimens don't belong to P. niruri rather P. fraternus. P. niruri
> thus is not synonym of P. amarus (not P. niruri Linn or P. niruri
> Hook.f.). P. fraternus has larger leaves and 6 perianth, male and female
> fls in different axils (male in lower axils, female in our axils), and
> 6-10 lobed disc. P. amarus has smaller leaves (yours are larger than mine
> P. fraternus hence the doubt), perianth 5 and 5-lobed disc.
>
> Gurcharan Singh
>
> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
> Associate Professor
> SGTB Khalsa College
> University of Delhi, Delhi
> India
> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dinesh Valke
> To: [email protected] ; Gurcharan Singh
> Cc: Devendra Bhardwaj
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 3:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [indiantreepix:17144] Re: ID-DKB178
>
> ... Phyllanthus amarus
>
> commonly known as: black catnip, carry me seed, child pick-a-back, gale of
> wind, gulf leaf flower, hurricane weed, shatterstone, stone breaker •
> Bengali: bhui amla • Hindi: bhui aonla, jar amla, jangli amli • Kannada:
> kirunelli, nelanelli • Marathi: भुईआवळी bhuiavali • Sanskrit: bahupatra,
> भूम्यामलकी bhumyaamalaki, jar amla, thamalaki • Tamil: கீழாநெல்லி
> keelanelli, கீழ்காய்நெல்லி kizkaynelli • Telugu: నేల ఉసిరి nela usiri
>
> Regards.
>
> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Devender ji, I think Phyllanthus reticulatus
>
> Gurcharan Singh
>
> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
> Associate Professor
> SGTB Khalsa College
> University of Delhi, Delhi
> India
> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Devendra Bhardwaj
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 9:08 AM
> Subject: [indiantreepix:17127] ID-DKB178
>
> Hello,
>
> Plant from Virat nagar Forest Jaipur
>
> For ID(ID-DKB178)
>
> It is Phyllanthus?
>
> Photo Taken on-26.8.2009
>
> Regd
>
> Devendra
>
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