Thank you very much Tapas sir. Glad to have this one's identity resolved. On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 2:33 PM, Tapas Chakrabarty <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dear Anuragji, > There are two validly described species, O. obtusata and O. gamblei (Plant > List shows that the identity of O. gamblei is unresolved but such lists in > the website are compile from secondary sources and therefore they often add > misgivings). Kanis in Blumea 16: 34. 1968 reduced O. gamblei to a variety > of O. obtusata. Var. gamblei differs from var. obtusata mainly in the > glaucous undersurface of the leaves, obtuse to rounded at apex. I think > that this is the appropriate treatment as most of the available specimens > can be assigned to the respective varieties using these characters leaving > aside some intergredations. > In conclusion, I would like to assign your photographs to Ochna obtusata > DC., var. gamblei (King ex Brandis) Kanis. (syn. O. beddomei Gamble). > The association of some misidentified specimens as O. squarrosa with O. > obtusata is already clarified. > Regards, > TC. > > On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 11:43 AM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: > >> GRIN <http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?423673> >> (updated in 2007) gives *Ochna* *obtusata* DC. var. *gamblei* (King ex >> Brandis) Kanis as a syn. of *Ochna gamblei *King ex Brandis >> <http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?423868> >> >> As per The Plant List Ver. 1.1, *Ochna gamblei *King ex Brandis >> <http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2399902> is unresolved. >> >> Various references under *Ochna* >> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/o/ochnaceae/ochna>, >> also give it as an accepted name. >> >> On 15 May 2015 at 22:12, surajit koley <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Sir, >>> >>> Does it mean we have only *Ochna obtusata* DC., without any var.? >>> >>> Thank you >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> surajit >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 9:59 PM, Tapas Chakrabarty <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> You have to see the following reference and what they say about the >>>> delimitation; if not satisfied, then you have to see the original >>>> descriptions and types of all the entities: >>>> Safui & M.P. Nayar in Hajra et al., Fl. India 4: 429. 1997. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 9:46 PM, surajit koley < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thank you very much Sir. >>>>> >>>>> Anurag Ji, >>>>> >>>>> I am unable to answer your Q.3. In college I/we didn't learn taxonomy >>>>> to genus or species level, our syllabus covered identification of a few >>>>> family only. >>>>> If i google "coriaceous leaf" it gives these pictures >>>>> <https://www.google.co.in/search?q=coriaceous+leaf&biw=1366&bih=643&sout=1&tbm=isch&ei=8BVWVfWyGoKPuASA_4G4Cw&start=0&sa=N> >>>>> . >>>>> "Waxy leaf" should be something like leaves of *Colocasia esculenta* (L.) >>>>> Schott >>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=107697#KEY-1-4> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> KEY in Flora of Karnataka (you have attached) informs leaves of var. >>>>> *gamblei* are glaucous. So you have now waxy-glaucous leaves just >>>>> like the colocasia above. I think you can go with *Ochna obtusata* >>>>> var.* gamblei* >>>>> <http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do;jsessionid=79601186E2AE94726247E8EFEDC66F41?id=60458747-2&back_page=%2Fipni%2FeditAdvPlantNameSearch.do%3Bjsessionid%3DF9DD35168DE796CE6042B10B1831C2F6%3Ffind_infragenus%3D%26find_isAPNIRecord%3Dtrue%26find_geoUnit%3D%26find_includePublicationAuthors%3Dtrue%26find_addedSince%3D%26find_family%3DOchnaceae%26find_genus%3D%26find_isGCIRecord%3Dtrue%26find_infrafamily%3D%26find_rankToReturn%3D%26find_publicationTitle%3D%26find_authorAbbrev%3D%26find_infraspecies%3D%26find_includeBasionymAuthors%3Dtrue%26find_modifiedSince%3D%26find_isIKRecord%3Dtrue%26find_species%3D%26output_format%3Dnormal> >>>>> (Brandis) >>>>> Kanis >>>>> <http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do;jsessionid=79601186E2AE94726247E8EFEDC66F41?id=60458747-2&back_page=%2Fipni%2FeditAdvPlantNameSearch.do%3Bjsessionid%3DF9DD35168DE796CE6042B10B1831C2F6%3Ffind_infragenus%3D%26find_isAPNIRecord%3Dtrue%26find_geoUnit%3D%26find_includePublicationAuthors%3Dtrue%26find_addedSince%3D%26find_family%3DOchnaceae%26find_genus%3D%26find_isGCIRecord%3Dtrue%26find_infrafamily%3D%26find_rankToReturn%3D%26find_publicationTitle%3D%26find_authorAbbrev%3D%26find_infraspecies%3D%26find_includeBasionymAuthors%3Dtrue%26find_modifiedSince%3D%26find_isIKRecord%3Dtrue%26find_species%3D%26output_format%3Dnormal> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> Thank you. >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 7:56 PM, Tapas Chakrabarty <[email protected] >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> This is why taxonomic revisions become necessary. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Anurag Sharma < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you Tapas sir, Surajit sir, Promila ma'am. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1) Surajit sir, when I first posted this plant, I did not have >>>>>>> access to some local flora which could have helped. I recently got a >>>>>>> copy. >>>>>>> Here is attached the key to species of Ochna in Karnataka (From Fl. >>>>>>> Karnataka C.J. Saldanha). This was published in the 1970s. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2) Based on the key, would you agree that this comes close to *Ochna >>>>>>> obtusata* var.* gamblei* (Brandis) Kanis? This name does not appear >>>>>>> in the plantlist. My reasoning is (as per my observation)- leaves are >>>>>>> around 6 cm long, Petals 2-2.3 cm long, most of the leaves rounded at >>>>>>> apex >>>>>>> and obscurely serrate. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 3) And as for the texture of leaves, I am afraid I do not know the >>>>>>> difference between coriaceous and waxy. Don't all leathery leaves seem >>>>>>> waxy >>>>>>> too and vice versa? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 4) Please also see the last attachment from K.M Matthew's flora of >>>>>>> Tamil Nadu Carnatic in which *Ochna obtusata* var *obtusata* is >>>>>>> clubbed with *Ochna squarrosa* L. In this case, please see the >>>>>>> description of *Ochna squarrosa *L. >>>>>>> <http://florakarnataka.ces.iisc.ernet.in/hjcb2/img/pdf/Ochna%20squarrosa/Ochna%20squarrosa.jpg> >>>>>>> from Bangalore Flora in which the leaf apex is listed as acute = same >>>>>>> as in *Ochna >>>>>>> obtusata* var. *obtusata* description in Flora of Karnataka and >>>>>>> diagram in Flora of Tamil Nadu Carnatic. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please let me know what you make of this sir. >>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 4:48 PM, Promila Chaturvedi < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It may be Ocna squerosa-Ramdhan Champa >>>>>>>> Promila >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 9:40 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Certainly Sir, that's why I wrote "All these are features of *Ochna >>>>>>>>> squarrosa* L. of Flora of British India". >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And I also noted in FBI one of its synonyms was *O. obtustata* DC. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Now, I do not know what are the differences between *squarrosa* L. >>>>>>>>> and *squarrosa* non L. Neither do I know if this plant is the >>>>>>>>> type species or any var. or some other. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> However, as I read my points I wrote in earlier mail I notice >>>>>>>>> there is some mistake in point 3, it should be "sepals not much >>>>>>>>> shorter >>>>>>>>> than petals". >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you >>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 9:01 PM, Tapas Chakrabarty < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So far as my knowledge goes, Ochna obtusata is different and >>>>>>>>>> distinct from O. squarrosa. Of course, O. squarrosa sensu FBI, non >>>>>>>>>> L. >>>>>>>>>> belongs here. >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> TC. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 7:51 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Oh! yes, there is naming issue >>>>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/o/ochnaceae/ochna/ochna-obtusata> >>>>>>>>>>> Sir. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thank you >>>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Tapas Chakrabarty < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> It looks like Ochna obtusata. >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>> TC. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 1:43 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Anurag Ji, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I received this mail on 23rd last month. To my surprise it >>>>>>>>>>>>> also remains untouched. I will try with my century and half old >>>>>>>>>>>>> lit., for >>>>>>>>>>>>> FoC or FoP or eFI doesn't provide me KEY. I wonder why my modern >>>>>>>>>>>>> equipped >>>>>>>>>>>>> friends remain silent! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The features I find here are - >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> - a tree (maybe a large shrub) >>>>>>>>>>>>> - flowers are relatively large >>>>>>>>>>>>> - sepals not much larger than petals >>>>>>>>>>>>> - anthers many time longer than short filaments >>>>>>>>>>>>> - style exceeding (not much though) stamens >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> All these are features of *Ochna squarrosa* L. of Flora of >>>>>>>>>>>>> British India. Leaf shape and margin serration vary. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> But, as I said these are old lit., we need modern materials, >>>>>>>>>>>>> our modern eFI informs there are taxa like - 1) *O. gamblei* 2) >>>>>>>>>>>>> *O. serrulata* 3) *O. kirkii* which I do not know. Don't wish >>>>>>>>>>>>> to find out synonyms to relate them with FBI. Would DNA analysis >>>>>>>>>>>>> help? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> My concern here is leaf texture, nothing else. You my check if >>>>>>>>>>>>> you can find details on *O. gamblei* (GRIN gives a synonym >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?423868#syn>) >>>>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>>> have waxy leaves >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://envis.frlht.org/showherbarium.php?d=5895> as per >>>>>>>>>>>>> FRLHT. I am not sure if your leaves can be called waxy. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Better wait for experts from your region. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 11:02 AM, J.M. Garg <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Forwarding again for Id assistance please. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some earlier relevant feedback: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ochna >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/o/ochnaceae/ochna> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> species in eFloraofindia (with details/ *keys *from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> published papers/ regional floras/ FRLHT/ FOI/ Biotik/ efloras/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> books etc., >>>>>>>>>>>>>> where ever available) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Anurag Sharma <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 17 April 2015 at 19:30 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [efloraofindia:221298] ANAPR48 Ochna sp. for >>>>>>>>>>>>>> identification >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Family: Ochnaceae >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 17th April 2015 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Place: Nandi Hills, Bangalore, Karnataka >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Habit: Shrub/Small tree >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Habitat: Scrub forest >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Butterflies, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also >>>>>>>>>>>>>> use them >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each >>>>>>>>>>>>>> image. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google >>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-group >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 9.9.14) or Efloraofindia >>>>>>>>>>>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> images). Winner >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Birds of India'. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Anurag N. Sharma >>>>>>> BSc. (CBZ) 2nd Year >>>>>>> St. Josephs College >>>>>>> Bangalore >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> With regards, >> J.M.Garg >> >> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >> The whole world uses my Image Resource >> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. >> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >> >> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, >> please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the >> world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or Efloraofindia >> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species >> database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of >> Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >> >> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >> India'. >> > > -- Anurag N. Sharma BSc. (CBZ) 2nd Year St. Josephs College Bangalore -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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