'Rather than digging into keys of exotic flora, if we get to know the facts / history of their introduction, that may serve our purpose. I strongly believe only one of these was introduced in India.'
I did read that in your initial mail but told myself - How does it matter? C. caudatus may have been introduced on a larger scale but there may have been introduction of C. diversifolius also (and not so well documented or by accident). It's also true that if you do not have a complete set of images / data you have limited choice. OK....Let's split the labour.... I try to dig out the keys / papers and you try dig out the historical facts! Regards, On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 5:23 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> wrote: > Samir, I marked a copy to Tabish because my plant features in Flowers of > India <http://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Wild%20Cosmos.html> > :-) > He should be aware of the outcome of this discussion; he may even share > his thoughts. > Hopefully Shrikant ji also gives his thoughts. > > Rather than digging into keys of exotic flora, if we get to know the facts > / history of their introduction, that may serve our purpose. I strongly > believe only one of these was introduced in India. > > Regards. > Dinesh > > > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 4:58 PM, Samir Mehta <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> I had relied on FoS for the id. Now that stands challenged – and for good >> reason. >> >> Point well taken; Agree with your concerns Dinesh. >> >> The two species seem to be very closely related. [I will post one >> Alisycarpus where I am having similar difficulty] >> >> Objective: is to take a bipartisan approach to resolving the id (not only >> two of us but the entire group - that's what a group is for in the first >> place). >> >> I suggest: >> >> 1. We try and get relevant keys of genus Cosmos. >> 2. Some scientific paper on the genus or something even more specific. >> 3. In Asteraceae the bracts are important, so the reverse of the flower >> face is important to demonstrate. >> >> . >> >> I am marking this mail to Shrikant Ingalhalikar also (you have already >> marked mail to Tabish). It will be helpful if the two gentlemen share there >> views also as we have relied on their respective works. >> >> I am also adding one more image to add more data on the species >> photographed by me. If you have more revealing images of your specimen >> please share them (or link) with this thread. >> >> >> Rgds, >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> At the University of Michigan pages, the Notes are as follows ... >>> >>> >>> *C. diversifolius* >>> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/h/herb2ic/x-mich1108999/mich1108999___tif >>> Notes >>> Pine-oak forests west of summits Occasional, mostly past flower. *Rays >>> white, disk yellow*. >>> >>> >>> *C. caudatus* >>> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/h/herb2ic/x-mich1108998/MICH1108998.TIF >>> Notes >>> Ungrazed hillsides in Bouteloua grassland Abundant on banks and >>> disturbed ground. Annual to 2 m. high; selected small specimens; *rays >>> deep pink, paler after opening, and often white toward base; disk yellow* >>> >>> >>> Regards. >>> Dinesh >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Samir for working out to get the references used for arriving to *C. >>>> diversifolius*. >>>> >>>> >>>> Yes, Shrikant ji's 3rd book does show a picture of *C. diversifolius* >>>> matching posted plant's flower. >>>> >>>> Let us view a link related to *C. caudatus* in Wikimedia ... >>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Cosmos_caudatus >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> and the herbarium link ... >>>> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/h/herb2ic/x-mich1108998/MICH1108998.TIF >>>> >>>> >>>> Somehow the content at both the links provided by you / me match the >>>> posted plant. >>>> We thus need someone to help us understand which of the two species was >>>> introduced in India. >>>> >>>> Regards. >>>> Dinesh >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 4:01 AM, Samir Mehta <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> For the more technical, visit: >>>>> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/h/herb2ic/x-mich1108999/mich1108999___tif >>>>> >>>>> Rgds, >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 12:31 AM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected] >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks all for having consensus on *Cosmos diversifolius*. >>>>>> I had posted my plant to the group with the ID of *C. caudatus*. It >>>>>> was not validated positively (nor in negative until today). >>>>>> >>>>>> This ID of *Cosmos diversifolius* is not convincing me. >>>>>> >>>>>> Both *C. diversifolius >>>>>> <http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?11682>* and *C. >>>>>> caudatus <http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?11681>* >>>>>> are native of Latin America, Not sure if *C. diversifolius* has >>>>>> naturalized in our country - not mentioned in NPGS pages, rather *C. >>>>>> caudatus* seems to have naturalized in larger part of eastern >>>>>> hemisphere including India. >>>>>> >>>>>> Results in image search on Google for these two species >>>>>> *diversifolius* & *caudatus* match more to *C. caudatus*. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear friends, I have put my thoughts, please validate. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards. >>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 11:35 PM, Samir Mehta <[email protected] >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes Dinesh, plant has been incorrectly identified on the group. No >>>>>>> wonder I did not find it when I searched for it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Paresh ji, your images are superb. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rgds, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Samir Mehta >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wednesday, October 28, 2015 at 11:09:05 PM UTC+5:30, pareshchuri >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Wonderful images Samir ji ! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes Dinesh ji, I have also photographed this plant from Tungreshwar >>>>>>>> WLS & got identified from Sushant More. >>>>>>>> It can be viewed here- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/nectar-plants/969/Cosmos-diversifolius >>>>>>>> <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ifoundbutterflies.org%2Fnectar-plants%2F969%2FCosmos-diversifolius&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNEalkP5gbpO1_d6C7_kLKuRsB949Q> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 9:59 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks Samir for sharing this plant; I have similar (seen planted >>>>>>>>> at Tungareshwar WLS) and was under the impression that it is *Cosmos >>>>>>>>> caudatus* Kunth. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 9:12 PM, Samir Mehta <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Wild flower @ S Gujarat, October. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> New addition to group data base. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Samir Mehta >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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