Mr. Valke: I understand your deep sense of guilt.
Dr. Mehta On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 12:32 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> wrote: > Samir, I said all my thoughts in positive sense. > > 'it is not good for just two of us to aggressively discuss over these two > species' > It is better to have others taking part in the discussion rather than have > only a dialogue between us two. > > 'We must and will take a pause here and let others voice their opinions > and views.' > I am suggesting "we" may be preventing. > > Regards. > Dinesh > > On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Samir Mehta <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> 'it is not good for just two of us to aggressively discuss over these two >> species' >> >> I am not at all sure what you, pls clarify. >> >> >> 'We must and will take a pause here and let others voice their opinions >> and views.' >> >> Dear flower-friend, I think this comment is uncalled for, as read and >> interpreted in plain english, you are suggesting I am preventing others >> from voicing their opinion - there could be nothing further from the truth, >> in fact I welcome it. >> >> Rgds, >> >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Dear Samir, >>> I am not capable of studying the links you have provided. It is beyond >>> my limits of understanding :-) >>> Moreover, it is not good for just two of us to aggressively discuss over >>> these two species. >>> >>> We must and will take a pause here and let others voice their opinions >>> and views. >>> >>> Regards. >>> Dinesh >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Samir Mehta <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> https://archive.org/stream/revisionofgenfisher#page/402/mode/2up >>>> >>>> You will find the keys to the genus on above weblink. >>>> >>>> Rgds, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 5:25 AM, Samir Mehta <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <https://archive.org/stream/revisionofgenfisher#page/444/mode/2up/search/cosmos+caudatus> >>>>> https://archive.org/details/*revision*ofgenfisher >>>>> >>>>> https://archive.org/details/revisionofgenfisher >>>>> >>>>> <https://archive.org/stream/revisionofgenfisher#page/444/mode/2up/search/cosmos+caudatus> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <https://archive.org/stream/revisionofgenfisher#page/444/mode/2up/search/cosmos+caudatus> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://archive.org/stream/revisionofgenfisher#page/444/mode/2up/search/cosmos+caudatus >>>>> >>>>> (above page most specific for C. diversifolius) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://archive.org/stream/revisionofgenfisher#page/412/mode/2up/search/cosmos+caudatus >>>>> >>>>> (above page most specific for C. caudatus >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have found a publication called 'Revsion of genus Cosmos' and given >>>>> links to 2 of the most specific pages wrt C. caudaus an C. diversifolius; >>>>> However most of the stuff is in Latin (I do not know Latin), some in >>>>> English. As I cannot read all of it - even parts specific to C. cudatus >>>>> and >>>>> diversifolius - I do not want to hazard a guess. [All I can say is that >>>>> achene of my plant is 2-aristate.]. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Kindly go through the same and give your views. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Samir Mehta >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thursday, October 29, 2015 at 5:42:37 PM UTC+5:30, Samir Mehta >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> 'Rather than digging into keys of exotic flora, if we get to know the >>>>>> facts / history of their introduction, that may serve our purpose. I >>>>>> strongly believe only one of these was introduced in India.' >>>>>> >>>>>> I did read that in your initial mail but told myself - How does it >>>>>> matter? C. caudatus may have been introduced on a larger scale but there >>>>>> may have been introduction of C. diversifolius also (and not so well >>>>>> documented or by accident). >>>>>> >>>>>> It's also true that if you do not have a complete set of images / >>>>>> data you have limited choice. >>>>>> >>>>>> OK....Let's split the labour.... I try to dig out the keys / papers >>>>>> and you try dig out the historical facts! >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 5:23 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected] >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Samir, I marked a copy to Tabish because my plant features in Flowers >>>>>>> of India >>>>>>> <http://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Wild%20Cosmos.html> >>>>>>> :-) >>>>>>> He should be aware of the outcome of this discussion; he may even >>>>>>> share his thoughts. >>>>>>> Hopefully Shrikant ji also gives his thoughts. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Rather than digging into keys of exotic flora, if we get to know the >>>>>>> facts / history of their introduction, that may serve our purpose. I >>>>>>> strongly believe only one of these was introduced in India. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 4:58 PM, Samir Mehta <[email protected] >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I had relied on FoS for the id. Now that stands challenged – and >>>>>>>> for good reason. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Point well taken; Agree with your concerns Dinesh. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The two species seem to be very closely related. [I will post one >>>>>>>> Alisycarpus where I am having similar difficulty] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Objective: is to take a bipartisan approach to resolving the id >>>>>>>> (not only two of us but the entire group - that's what a group is for >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the first place). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I suggest: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. We try and get relevant keys of genus Cosmos. >>>>>>>> 2. Some scientific paper on the genus or something even more >>>>>>>> specific. >>>>>>>> 3. In Asteraceae the bracts are important, so the reverse of the >>>>>>>> flower face is important to demonstrate. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am marking this mail to Shrikant Ingalhalikar also (you have >>>>>>>> already marked mail to Tabish). It will be helpful if the two gentlemen >>>>>>>> share there views also as we have relied on their respective works. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am also adding one more image to add more data on the species >>>>>>>> photographed by me. If you have more revealing images of your specimen >>>>>>>> please share them (or link) with this thread. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Rgds, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> At the University of Michigan pages, the Notes are as follows ... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *C. diversifolius* >>>>>>>>> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/h/herb2ic/x-mich1108999/mich1108999___tif >>>>>>>>> Notes >>>>>>>>> Pine-oak forests west of summits Occasional, mostly past flower. *Rays >>>>>>>>> white, disk yellow*. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *C. caudatus* >>>>>>>>> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/h/herb2ic/x-mich1108998/MICH1108998.TIF >>>>>>>>> Notes >>>>>>>>> Ungrazed hillsides in Bouteloua grassland Abundant on banks and >>>>>>>>> disturbed ground. Annual to 2 m. high; selected small specimens; *rays >>>>>>>>> deep pink, paler after opening, and often white toward base; disk >>>>>>>>> yellow* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks Samir for working out to get the references used for >>>>>>>>>> arriving to *C. diversifolius*. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes, Shrikant ji's 3rd book does show a picture of *C. >>>>>>>>>> diversifolius* matching posted plant's flower. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Let us view a link related to *C. caudatus* in Wikimedia ... >>>>>>>>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Cosmos_caudatus >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> and the herbarium link ... >>>>>>>>>> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/h/herb2ic/x-mich1108998/MICH1108998.TIF >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Somehow the content at both the links provided by you / me match >>>>>>>>>> the posted plant. >>>>>>>>>> We thus need someone to help us understand which of the two >>>>>>>>>> species was introduced in India. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 4:01 AM, Samir Mehta < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> For the more technical, visit: >>>>>>>>>>> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/h/herb2ic/x-mich1108999/mich1108999___tif >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Rgds, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 12:31 AM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks all for having consensus on *Cosmos diversifolius*. >>>>>>>>>>>> I had posted my plant to the group with the ID of *C. caudatus*. >>>>>>>>>>>> It was not validated positively (nor in negative until today). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This ID of *Cosmos diversifolius* is not convincing me. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Both *C. diversifolius >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?11682>* and >>>>>>>>>>>> *C. caudatus >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?11681>* >>>>>>>>>>>> are native of Latin America, Not sure if *C. diversifolius* >>>>>>>>>>>> has naturalized in our country - not mentioned in NPGS pages, >>>>>>>>>>>> rather *C. >>>>>>>>>>>> caudatus* seems to have naturalized in larger part of eastern >>>>>>>>>>>> hemisphere including India. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Results in image search on Google for these two species >>>>>>>>>>>> *diversifolius* & *caudatus* match more to *C. caudatus*. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dear friends, I have put my thoughts, please validate. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 11:35 PM, Samir Mehta < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes Dinesh, plant has been incorrectly identified on the >>>>>>>>>>>>> group. No wonder I did not find it when I searched for it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Paresh ji, your images are superb. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Rgds, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Samir Mehta >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, October 28, 2015 at 11:09:05 PM UTC+5:30, >>>>>>>>>>>>> pareshchuri wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wonderful images Samir ji ! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes Dinesh ji, I have also photographed this plant from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tungreshwar WLS & got identified from Sushant More. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It can be viewed here- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/nectar-plants/969/Cosmos-diversifolius >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ifoundbutterflies.org%2Fnectar-plants%2F969%2FCosmos-diversifolius&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNEalkP5gbpO1_d6C7_kLKuRsB949Q> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 9:59 PM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Samir for sharing this plant; I have similar (seen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> planted at Tungareshwar WLS) and was under the impression that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is *Cosmos >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> caudatus* Kunth. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 9:12 PM, Samir Mehta < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wild flower @ S Gujarat, October. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New addition to group data base. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Samir Mehta >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>>>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/VH_yTkIuR50/unsubscribe >>>>> . >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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