'it is not good for just two of us to aggressively discuss over these two species'
I am not at all sure what you, pls clarify. 'We must and will take a pause here and let others voice their opinions and views.' Dear flower-friend, I think this comment is uncalled for, as read and interpreted in plain english, you are suggesting I am preventing others from voicing their opinion - there could be nothing further from the truth, in fact I welcome it. Rgds, On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 9:51 AM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Samir, > I am not capable of studying the links you have provided. It is beyond my > limits of understanding :-) > Moreover, it is not good for just two of us to aggressively discuss over > these two species. > > We must and will take a pause here and let others voice their opinions and > views. > > Regards. > Dinesh > > On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Samir Mehta <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> https://archive.org/stream/revisionofgenfisher#page/402/mode/2up >> >> You will find the keys to the genus on above weblink. >> >> Rgds, >> >> >> >> On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 5:25 AM, Samir Mehta <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> <https://archive.org/stream/revisionofgenfisher#page/444/mode/2up/search/cosmos+caudatus> >>> https://archive.org/details/*revision*ofgenfisher >>> >>> https://archive.org/details/revisionofgenfisher >>> >>> <https://archive.org/stream/revisionofgenfisher#page/444/mode/2up/search/cosmos+caudatus> >>> >>> >>> >>> <https://archive.org/stream/revisionofgenfisher#page/444/mode/2up/search/cosmos+caudatus> >>> >>> >>> https://archive.org/stream/revisionofgenfisher#page/444/mode/2up/search/cosmos+caudatus >>> >>> (above page most specific for C. diversifolius) >>> >>> >>> https://archive.org/stream/revisionofgenfisher#page/412/mode/2up/search/cosmos+caudatus >>> >>> (above page most specific for C. caudatus >>> >>> >>> I have found a publication called 'Revsion of genus Cosmos' and given >>> links to 2 of the most specific pages wrt C. caudaus an C. diversifolius; >>> However most of the stuff is in Latin (I do not know Latin), some in >>> English. As I cannot read all of it - even parts specific to C. cudatus and >>> diversifolius - I do not want to hazard a guess. [All I can say is that >>> achene of my plant is 2-aristate.]. >>> >>> >>> Kindly go through the same and give your views. >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> >>> Samir Mehta >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, October 29, 2015 at 5:42:37 PM UTC+5:30, Samir Mehta wrote: >>>> >>>> 'Rather than digging into keys of exotic flora, if we get to know the >>>> facts / history of their introduction, that may serve our purpose. I >>>> strongly believe only one of these was introduced in India.' >>>> >>>> I did read that in your initial mail but told myself - How does it >>>> matter? C. caudatus may have been introduced on a larger scale but there >>>> may have been introduction of C. diversifolius also (and not so well >>>> documented or by accident). >>>> >>>> It's also true that if you do not have a complete set of images / data >>>> you have limited choice. >>>> >>>> OK....Let's split the labour.... I try to dig out the keys / papers and >>>> you try dig out the historical facts! >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 5:23 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Samir, I marked a copy to Tabish because my plant features in Flowers >>>>> of India >>>>> <http://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Wild%20Cosmos.html> :-) >>>>> He should be aware of the outcome of this discussion; he may even >>>>> share his thoughts. >>>>> Hopefully Shrikant ji also gives his thoughts. >>>>> >>>>> Rather than digging into keys of exotic flora, if we get to know the >>>>> facts / history of their introduction, that may serve our purpose. I >>>>> strongly believe only one of these was introduced in India. >>>>> >>>>> Regards. >>>>> Dinesh >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 4:58 PM, Samir Mehta <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I had relied on FoS for the id. Now that stands challenged – and for >>>>>> good reason. >>>>>> >>>>>> Point well taken; Agree with your concerns Dinesh. >>>>>> >>>>>> The two species seem to be very closely related. [I will post one >>>>>> Alisycarpus where I am having similar difficulty] >>>>>> >>>>>> Objective: is to take a bipartisan approach to resolving the id (not >>>>>> only two of us but the entire group - that's what a group is for in the >>>>>> first place). >>>>>> >>>>>> I suggest: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. We try and get relevant keys of genus Cosmos. >>>>>> 2. Some scientific paper on the genus or something even more specific. >>>>>> 3. In Asteraceae the bracts are important, so the reverse of the >>>>>> flower face is important to demonstrate. >>>>>> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> I am marking this mail to Shrikant Ingalhalikar also (you have >>>>>> already marked mail to Tabish). It will be helpful if the two gentlemen >>>>>> share there views also as we have relied on their respective works. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am also adding one more image to add more data on the species >>>>>> photographed by me. If you have more revealing images of your specimen >>>>>> please share them (or link) with this thread. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Rgds, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> At the University of Michigan pages, the Notes are as follows ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *C. diversifolius* >>>>>>> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/h/herb2ic/x-mich1108999/mich1108999___tif >>>>>>> Notes >>>>>>> Pine-oak forests west of summits Occasional, mostly past flower. *Rays >>>>>>> white, disk yellow*. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *C. caudatus* >>>>>>> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/h/herb2ic/x-mich1108998/MICH1108998.TIF >>>>>>> Notes >>>>>>> Ungrazed hillsides in Bouteloua grassland Abundant on banks and >>>>>>> disturbed ground. Annual to 2 m. high; selected small specimens; *rays >>>>>>> deep pink, paler after opening, and often white toward base; disk >>>>>>> yellow* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks Samir for working out to get the references used for >>>>>>>> arriving to *C. diversifolius*. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, Shrikant ji's 3rd book does show a picture of *C. >>>>>>>> diversifolius* matching posted plant's flower. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Let us view a link related to *C. caudatus* in Wikimedia ... >>>>>>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Cosmos_caudatus >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> and the herbarium link ... >>>>>>>> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/h/herb2ic/x-mich1108998/MICH1108998.TIF >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Somehow the content at both the links provided by you / me match >>>>>>>> the posted plant. >>>>>>>> We thus need someone to help us understand which of the two species >>>>>>>> was introduced in India. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 4:01 AM, Samir Mehta < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For the more technical, visit: >>>>>>>>> http://quod.lib.umich.edu/h/herb2ic/x-mich1108999/mich1108999___tif >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Rgds, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 12:31 AM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks all for having consensus on *Cosmos diversifolius*. >>>>>>>>>> I had posted my plant to the group with the ID of *C. caudatus*. >>>>>>>>>> It was not validated positively (nor in negative until today). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This ID of *Cosmos diversifolius* is not convincing me. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Both *C. diversifolius >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?11682>* and *C. >>>>>>>>>> caudatus <http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?11681>* >>>>>>>>>> are native of Latin America, Not sure if *C. diversifolius* has >>>>>>>>>> naturalized in our country - not mentioned in NPGS pages, rather *C. >>>>>>>>>> caudatus* seems to have naturalized in larger part of eastern >>>>>>>>>> hemisphere including India. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Results in image search on Google for these two species >>>>>>>>>> *diversifolius* & *caudatus* match more to *C. caudatus*. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear friends, I have put my thoughts, please validate. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 11:35 PM, Samir Mehta < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yes Dinesh, plant has been incorrectly identified on the group. >>>>>>>>>>> No wonder I did not find it when I searched for it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Paresh ji, your images are superb. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Rgds, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Samir Mehta >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, October 28, 2015 at 11:09:05 PM UTC+5:30, >>>>>>>>>>> pareshchuri wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Wonderful images Samir ji ! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Yes Dinesh ji, I have also photographed this plant from >>>>>>>>>>>> Tungreshwar WLS & got identified from Sushant More. >>>>>>>>>>>> It can be viewed here- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/nectar-plants/969/Cosmos-diversifolius >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ifoundbutterflies.org%2Fnectar-plants%2F969%2FCosmos-diversifolius&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNEalkP5gbpO1_d6C7_kLKuRsB949Q> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 9:59 PM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks Samir for sharing this plant; I have similar (seen >>>>>>>>>>>>> planted at Tungareshwar WLS) and was under the impression that it >>>>>>>>>>>>> is *Cosmos >>>>>>>>>>>>> caudatus* Kunth. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dinesh >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 9:12 PM, Samir Mehta < >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wild flower @ S Gujarat, October. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> New addition to group data base. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Samir Mehta >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/indiantreepix/VH_yTkIuR50/unsubscribe. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>> [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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