Respected Sir Please check the pdf I attached last time. S. sinensis comes in both glabrous and hairy forms. We have seen both and checked DNA too. They are exactly same as per DNA. To me this was a surprise. Thats why I dislike DNA studies so much. How can one with and the other without hairs have same DNA!! Pankaj
On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 at 14:25, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks, Singh ji > > On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 at 19:16, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Since S. sinensis and S. australis are now treated as distinct species >> according to POWO (synonyms acoording to both eFlora of China and eFlora of >> Pakistan), I chanced upon this 2020 paper published in Acta Phytotax Geobot >> _pdf (jst.go.jp) >> <https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/apg/71/2/71_201922/_pdf> >> It further confuses me as it says "the stems, inflorescence and ovaries >> of S. australis are generally pubescent, whereas those of S. sinensis are >> reported to be glabrous. Pankaj ji please resolve >> >> On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 6:49:44 PM UTC+5:30 Gurcharan Singh wrote: >> >>> 1. read S. sinensis for S. spiranthes >>> >>> On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 6:48:19 PM UTC+5:30 Gurcharan Singh wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Garg ji for bringing up old interesting conversation (now >>>> locked). Only Pankaj can resolve it for us. I have 22 more images which I >>>> can share with Pankaj ji if he wants: But these do suggest S. himalayensis: >>>> 1. Flowering (clicked) in May (vs flowering August to Septtember in >>>> India in S. spiranthes) >>>> 2. I can see densely pubescent inflorescence with some glandular hairs >>>> (vs pubescent to glabrous in S. sinensis) >>>> 3. Flower completely white (vs pink or purple, tip sometimes white in >>>> S. sinensis) >>>> >>>> More of course Pankaj would give final verdict. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 4:50:19 PM UTC+5:30 Dr Pankaj Kumar >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Spiranthes australis is not found in India. It is not easy to confirm >>>>> this. Recently Spiranthes hongkongensis was reported from Nepal so there >>>>> are chances of having it in India too. Some details needed to confirm. >>>>> Please check the pdf attached. >>>>> Pankaj >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 at 23:34, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Flora of China >>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200028827> >>>>>> also >>>>>> supports this. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 at 20:58, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> As per efi thread >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/indiantreepix/1v4wWBkaXSY> >>>>>>> : >>>>>>> In Flora of British India the species was described under the name >>>>>>> *Spiranthes >>>>>>> australis* (R. Br.) Lindl., A species name (rather combination) >>>>>>> proposed in 1824, based on *Neottia australis* R. Br. (1810), a >>>>>>> species supposed to have pubescent inflorescence spike (it is also >>>>>>> supposed to have pubescent bracts and floral parts partly as I read from >>>>>>> other sources). >>>>>>> *Spiranthes sinensis* (Pers.) Ames, is a name (rather combination) >>>>>>> given in 1908, based on *Neottia sinensis* Pers. (1807), a species >>>>>>> described from China and differing in glabrous spikes (and bracts and >>>>>>> floral parts). >>>>>>> It has recently been considered by most authors (including Flora of >>>>>>> China, Flora of Pakistan, etc.) that these two taxa are synonyms, and as >>>>>>> basionym of latter is dated earlier, *Spiranthes sinensis* is >>>>>>> accepted name. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It must be remembered that it is matter of taxonomic judgement (and >>>>>>> not a simple issue of names), as the two species were originally >>>>>>> described >>>>>>> as distinct species (they have distinct types). For those who consider >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> differences are not enough would treat them under single species* S. >>>>>>> sinensis*. Those who think (like original authors) that differences >>>>>>> are sufficient, and are also trying to detect further differences to >>>>>>> strengthen their distinct identity, would consider them as two separate >>>>>>> species. I think … is just trying to do that, trying to settle the >>>>>>> riddle, >>>>>>> and he being a world renowned Orchid specialist is both qualified to do >>>>>>> that. More so he owes the duty of resolving it for us. Let us appreciate >>>>>>> that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 at 20:32, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, Singh ji, for the six detailed images >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/indiantreepix/c/zAzXn59BJmU>. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>>>>>>> From: Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 21:49 >>>>>>>> Subject: [efloraofindia:412559] Spiranthes australis from Himachal >>>>>>>> Pradesh-GS16012022-5 >>>>>>>> To: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Spiranthes australis clicked from along Bhangayani Temple Nohradhar >>>>>>>> Road, Himachal Pradesh, 25-5-2015 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>>>> https://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CAHiXKpUZ8QmC-pMk1X1uir0dtNfSkDPgP7E8dwrynGCRRhL8RA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CAHiXKpUZ8QmC-pMk1X1uir0dtNfSkDPgP7E8dwrynGCRRhL8RA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> With regards, >>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> *Pankaj Kumar*, Ph.D. >>>>> *IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia* >>>>> >>>>> 32, 2nd Floor, Shui Wo Tsuen, Lam Tsuen, >>>>> >>>>> Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong S.A.R., China >>>>> >>>>> *email*: [email protected] >>>>> *Phone*: +852 9436 6251 (mobile) >>>>> >>>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "efloraofindia" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/ae66ec5e-c8e7-4298-a6e4-507379c9509fn%40googlegroups.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/ae66ec5e-c8e7-4298-a6e4-507379c9509fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > > -- > With regards, > J.M.Garg > -- *Pankaj Kumar*, Ph.D. *IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia* 32, 2nd Floor, Shui Wo Tsuen, Lam Tsuen, Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong S.A.R., China *email*: [email protected] *Phone*: +852 9436 6251 (mobile) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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