On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 at 14:07, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dear Pankaj > How about some glandular hairs I see in my specimens, and completely white > flowers which point towards your S. himalensis. I can more images if you > want. > > On Tuesday, January 25, 2022 at 12:12:11 PM UTC+5:30 Dr Pankaj Kumar wrote: > >> Respected Sir >> Please check the pdf I attached last time. >> S. sinensis comes in both glabrous and hairy forms. We have seen both and >> checked DNA too. They are exactly same as per DNA. >> To me this was a surprise. Thats why I dislike DNA studies so much. How >> can one with and the other without hairs have same DNA!! >> Pankaj >> >> >> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 at 14:25, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Thanks, Singh ji >>> >>> On Sun, 23 Jan 2022 at 19:16, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Since S. sinensis and S. australis are now treated as distinct species >>>> according to POWO (synonyms acoording to both eFlora of China and eFlora of >>>> Pakistan), I chanced upon this 2020 paper published in Acta Phytotax Geobot >>>> _pdf (jst.go.jp) >>>> <https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/apg/71/2/71_201922/_pdf> >>>> It further confuses me as it says "the stems, inflorescence and ovaries >>>> of S. australis are generally pubescent, whereas those of S. sinensis are >>>> reported to be glabrous. Pankaj ji please resolve >>>> >>>> On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 6:49:44 PM UTC+5:30 Gurcharan Singh >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> 1. read S. sinensis for S. spiranthes >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 6:48:19 PM UTC+5:30 Gurcharan Singh >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks Garg ji for bringing up old interesting conversation (now >>>>>> locked). Only Pankaj can resolve it for us. I have 22 more images which I >>>>>> can share with Pankaj ji if he wants: But these do suggest S. >>>>>> himalayensis: >>>>>> 1. Flowering (clicked) in May (vs flowering August to Septtember in >>>>>> India in S. spiranthes) >>>>>> 2. I can see densely pubescent inflorescence with some glandular >>>>>> hairs (vs pubescent to glabrous in S. sinensis) >>>>>> 3. Flower completely white (vs pink or purple, tip sometimes white in >>>>>> S. sinensis) >>>>>> >>>>>> More of course Pankaj would give final verdict. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sunday, January 23, 2022 at 4:50:19 PM UTC+5:30 Dr Pankaj Kumar >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Spiranthes australis is not found in India. It is not easy to >>>>>>> confirm this. Recently Spiranthes hongkongensis was reported from Nepal >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> there are chances of having it in India too. Some details needed to >>>>>>> confirm. >>>>>>> Please check the pdf attached. >>>>>>> Pankaj >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 at 23:34, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Flora of China >>>>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200028827> >>>>>>>> also >>>>>>>> supports this. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, 22 Jan 2022 at 20:58, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As per efi thread >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/indiantreepix/1v4wWBkaXSY> >>>>>>>>> : >>>>>>>>> In Flora of British India the species was described under the name >>>>>>>>> *Spiranthes australis* (R. Br.) Lindl., A species name (rather >>>>>>>>> combination) proposed in 1824, based on *Neottia australis* R. >>>>>>>>> Br. (1810), a species supposed to have pubescent inflorescence >>>>>>>>> spike (it is also supposed to have pubescent bracts and floral parts >>>>>>>>> partly >>>>>>>>> as I read from other sources). >>>>>>>>> *Spiranthes sinensis* (Pers.) Ames, is a name (rather >>>>>>>>> combination) given in 1908, based on *Neottia sinensis* Pers. >>>>>>>>> (1807), a species described from China and differing in glabrous >>>>>>>>> spikes >>>>>>>>> (and bracts and floral parts). >>>>>>>>> It has recently been considered by most authors (including Flora >>>>>>>>> of China, Flora of Pakistan, etc.) that these two taxa are synonyms, >>>>>>>>> and as >>>>>>>>> basionym of latter is dated earlier, *Spiranthes sinensis* is >>>>>>>>> accepted name. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It must be remembered that it is matter of taxonomic judgement >>>>>>>>> (and not a simple issue of names), as the two species were originally >>>>>>>>> described as distinct species (they have distinct types). For those >>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>> consider the differences are not enough would treat them under single >>>>>>>>> species* S. sinensis*. Those who think (like original authors) >>>>>>>>> that differences are sufficient, and are also trying to detect further >>>>>>>>> differences to strengthen their distinct identity, would consider >>>>>>>>> them as >>>>>>>>> two separate species. I think … is just trying to do that, trying to >>>>>>>>> settle >>>>>>>>> the riddle, and he being a world renowned Orchid specialist is both >>>>>>>>> qualified to do that. More so he owes the duty of resolving it for >>>>>>>>> us. Let >>>>>>>>> us appreciate that. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 at 20:32, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Singh ji, for the six detailed images >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/indiantreepix/c/zAzXn59BJmU>. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>>>>>>>>> From: Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 21:49 >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [efloraofindia:412559] Spiranthes australis from >>>>>>>>>> Himachal Pradesh-GS16012022-5 >>>>>>>>>> To: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Spiranthes australis clicked from along Bhangayani Temple >>>>>>>>>> Nohradhar Road, Himachal Pradesh, 25-5-2015 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>>>>>> https://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CAHiXKpUZ8QmC-pMk1X1uir0dtNfSkDPgP7E8dwrynGCRRhL8RA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CAHiXKpUZ8QmC-pMk1X1uir0dtNfSkDPgP7E8dwrynGCRRhL8RA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Pankaj Kumar*, Ph.D. >>>>>>> *IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 32, 2nd Floor, Shui Wo Tsuen, Lam Tsuen, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong S.A.R., China >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *email*: [email protected] >>>>>>> *Phone*: +852 9436 6251 (mobile) >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/ae66ec5e-c8e7-4298-a6e4-507379c9509fn%40googlegroups.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/ae66ec5e-c8e7-4298-a6e4-507379c9509fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> With regards, >>> J.M.Garg >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> *Pankaj Kumar*, Ph.D. >> *IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia* >> >> 32, 2nd Floor, Shui Wo Tsuen, Lam Tsuen, >> >> Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong S.A.R., China >> >> *email*: [email protected] >> *Phone*: +852 9436 6251 (mobile) >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "efloraofindia" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/fbdc460a-8199-4806-b1a7-97abf5d40a12n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/fbdc460a-8199-4806-b1a7-97abf5d40a12n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- With regards, J.M.Garg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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